The 19th Child: Breaking Family Patterns with Paul Lamar Hunter

Rod Richard: Today I'm sitting down with Paul Lamar Hunter, author of No Love, No Charity: The Success of the Nineteenth Child. Paul was born the 19th of 21 children and grew up facing poverty, loss, dysfunction, and emotional neglect. At 42, he became the first person among his 21 siblings to graduate from college. Paul is also a father of four adult children and a grandfather, and today we're talking about the parts of his story that numbers alone cannot explain. Losing his father, feeling unseen, Honoring a complicated mother, breaking family patterns, and learning how to give his own children what he needed growing up. All right, welcome back to the Forfit Fatherhood Podcast, a podcast for Fathers by Fathers, where we talk about the four pillars of fatherhood, which are faith, family, finance, and fitness. And you know, I've been I've been lining up some guests here lately and this one is it just kind of fell into my lap. So I certainly appreciate this brother for reaching out. And I think we're gonna have a solid episode for you guys. So so Paul, Paul Lamar, brother, how you doing today?

Paul Lamar: Hey, you know what? I am excited that you brought me on the show, because people are going to be taken aback about my story and I think that We're gonna have some viral segments on your show today.

Rod Richard: Yeah, listen, I you send me the email and I hit the link and I start reading and I'm like, man, this there's a lot in here. Let let me let me let's let's try to pick a spot to start at and then I I'm sure with a conversation to kind of lead us all over the place. But so Paul Paul, most people kinda introduce you as the the the nineteenth of twenty one children, right? before we

Paul Lamar: Yes.

Rod Richard: talk about the number, who who is Paul Lamar Hunts today?

Paul Lamar: Well, Paul Lamar Hunter is a man of faith. Paul Lamar Hunter is a man that believed that with God all things are possible. That's who I am today.

Rod Richard: That's awesome. That's awesome. Now, kind of piggybacking off of that, 'cause I I the first question I wanted to ask you was about the number, right? But what is it that you wish people would ask you, before they ask you what was it like growing up in that house kind of thing?

Paul Lamar: Well, I I will say this. if people would know my story, they will just be surprised that I overcame a lot of obstacles to get where I am today. And so you know, I am the 19th child. That's I'm going to be honest with you. I am the 19th child out of 21. natural children. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, my mother actually birthed 21 children by my dad. 10 boys,

Rod Richard: Wow.

Paul Lamar: 11 girls, 65 grandchildren, and 150 great grandchildren. So please, please do not mess with me because I have a lot of siblings and I have a lot of nieces and nephews.

Rod Richard: Y'all's what I'm saying. Yeah, man. You can't mess with nobody in the Hunter family. You had a whole town on your head.

Paul Lamar: Yeah, yeah. So if you if you if you look if you look at our family history, you can say that we have our own, we have our own football team, our own basketball team, hockey team, baseball team. You understand? We we just we are just a a big old team and can't nobody beat us because we are undefeated. I can say that.

Rod Richard: Yeah. Okay, all right. So so you you're born in in Wisconsin. I guess we'd if we're gonna start the story, right? We're talking about nineteenth of twenty one, we gotta start at the beginning, right? So we're born in Wisconsin.

Paul Lamar: Yes.

Rod Richard: what was it like growing up the nineteenth of twenty one? It's the question that that everybody wants to know.

Paul Lamar: I tell you what, all of my siblings, my mother, my father, they were Green Bay Packer fans. I

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: was the only 49ers fan in the family. So

Rod Richard: That's what I'm talking about.

Paul Lamar: every Sunday they cheering for the Green Bay Packers. And every Sunday I'm cheering for my 49ers. My siblings still today, they dislike. The 49ers, just like I dislike the Green Bay Packers. But we had a good time because on Sundays, mom and dad will always prepare a big meal. I'm talking about if you ever seen the movie Soul Food, that's how my mother and father used to throw down on Sundays. So they will be in that kitchen cooking alongside with my older siblings because. Dad and mom used to always say, we have to prepare you how to cook and clean because one day you're going to be on your own. And so they will prepare us how to cook and clean. But we had one of the best times, and that is on Sunday, because we all sat down and we ate at the table, even though the table was pretty big, but some of us, the young kids, we sat on the floor and ate. right in front of the TV while while while my dad and mom and older siblings were engaged in the conversation or engaged into the football games. But we had a great time growing up. There's no regrets. There's no regrets whatsoever because our growing up did not determine how we was going to be in life. But we all turn out To be good men and women, and we are all productive in society. Yes, we made some mistakes, but we learn from our mistakes. So when you are a parent, yes, you will make mistakes, but we all learn from our mistakes and we were able to move on. But we had a good understanding that mom and dad was not perfect, and dad or mom couldn't give what they didn't have.

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: And we learned that.

Rod Richard: Yeah. When so when when you were when you were born, was everybody still in the house? Or at that point people was starting to become adults and was a kind of moving out?

Paul Lamar: Everybody was still in the house. Let me share this true American story. My mother at this particular time was pregnant with the 14 child, which is my brother Larry. He's a pastor in Memphis, Tennessee. They

Rod Richard: Okay.

Paul Lamar: were living in a three-bedroom home. One day the sheriff came knocking at the door. When he knocked at the door, he told my mother and father. That they had 72 days, 72 hours to vacate because it was too many people living in this three-bedroom home. Mom and dad went to church that night, and at that particular time, they will put you in a circle and surround you and lay hands

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: on you and believe that God was going to perform an urgent miracle in your life. And God did that. Within 24 hours, a man came knocking at the door to show my parents an 18-bedroom house. He took my mother and father to see this 18-bedroom house. Mom and dad loved the home. The man said, this home is yours just for one dollar, 10 dimes, 100 pennies. My mother and father did not have a dollar in their wallet. Do you know that man went into his wallet to give my parents that dollar to purchase this home just for one dollar? So that home was an extraordinary

Rod Richard: Wow.

Paul Lamar: home for the Hunter family. We grew up in an 18-bedroom house. So when you go out and you decide to pick up my mother's book, Love and Charity, the life story of Louise Hunter in the Love and Charity Homeless Shelter. You're gonna see miracles after miracles after miracles because God had a good understanding that he was going to increase my parents' faith by trials and tribulations.

Rod Richard: Yeah man. Look, th it's a miracle in itself because I don't I've never even heard of a eighteen bedroom home. You know what I mean? I don't as a as a as a developer, I don't even know why you would start to build a eighteen bedroom home, but but but God, right? As they say.

Paul Lamar: Yeah.

Rod Richard: Man, and then okay, so eighteen bedroom home, you gotta be thinking, all right, I'm I'm gonna make a nice little coin off of eighteen bedrooms and then you the coins you make is ten p ten ten dimes. That's that

Paul Lamar: Yeah.

Rod Richard: that I mean, that is a miracle for sure, for sure.

Paul Lamar: And so you know what? If you look back at those times, they did not have social media. But what they

Rod Richard: Right.

Paul Lamar: did have is word of mouth. So somehow the church sent out a message. And somebody received that message and said, you know what? I have to help this man and woman that have these children. So that way they cannot be homeless or on the streets. So somebody

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: put out a word and the word got back and God performed a miracle for the Hunter family.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah, man. That that ain't nothing but God. Cause i I d I don't even know where you would start looking, even even if you were like, all right,

Paul Lamar: Mm-hmm.

Rod Richard: we gotta find somewhere to go. Like I especially back then, it wasn't you'd have to look in the newspaper or something or drive around to find something. back back in those days. So yeah, man, that ain't nothing but God. People got around and and one and two were in prayer and he was in their midst, and next thing you know, y'all was y'all was in the in the big house. Okay.

Paul Lamar: Yes.

Rod Richard: So that's gotta be a that's gotta be a interesting dynamic too, because you know, with all of the older siblings and everybody's still living together, everybody's kind of obviously you guys are sounds like a close knit family, but still, you know, with age gaps and people are kind of doing different things or at different points in their life, there's probably like a whole lot of moving parts and things going on. D was there a a a sibling that you that you kinda locked in on or a group of like a like you 'cause I feel like Me, I have four sisters. Me and the sister that's closest to me are really tight, and then me and my oldest sister are really tight. And then the two in the middle, we cool, but you know, they kinda do they're they're for whatever reason they kinda do their own little thing. was it was it any like group of f brothers and sisters that kinda locked in or w w did you have like a you know what I mean?

Paul Lamar: Well, I I I I locked in with the last. my my baby sister and my knee baby sister. So the the 20th child and the 21st child. I locked in with them because we all had a pact that when we become adults, we were gonna beat up our older siblings for for for

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: disciplining us, you know, forcing us to do homework, forcing us to clean up the house. We didn't want to listen to them. But we made a pact that once we become adults that we were going to, we were gonna beat them up. And I'll never

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: forget that when we did become adults, and we were at my one of my sister's house, Barbara Ann, and we were at her house, and and all of my siblings was there too. And my baby sister had said to Elsie and me, say y'all rem say, you remember when we made that pack? And I was like, Yeah, so now it's time for us to get them. You know.

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: Because, you know, my baby sister, she's whoop, she, she, she is she is just crazy, extraordinary. She said, now it's time to get them. And I I looked at her and I said, We're not gonna do that, you know, because we deserve those whoopings back then. She was like, no, we made a pack. Let's get them now. They old, they can't do nothing. So we I told them, I convinced them not to do it, you understand? Because we deserve those, you know, the discipline, you know. We we had

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: homework to do, we had chores to do, and we will argue with them and fight with them, and they had the right to discipline us. Yeah.

Rod Richard: Yeah. Man. So yeah, I was gonna I was gonna ask about that 'cause I know, you know, in my my older sister's not that much older than me, but she there were times where they like my parents put her in charge she was in charge of us, right? And she had to if we did something, she had to tell us what to do or not to do, and if we did something, she got in trouble for it and we got in trouble for it. So I I I wonder, you know, h how that works because shoot, I got two girls. I'm nowhere near twenty one. I'm I'm some days pulling my hair out trying to manage two. So I'm I'm curious how your parents manage that or from your from your perspective as as the child, how was how was that for them?

Paul Lamar: Well, my my older sister, she was the one that's in charge, all right, and at that particular time. Still today, she thinks that she is in charge. So, you know, it if you don't call her, she's 73 years old. So my my older sister is 73. My baby sister is 53. So you see the the age, you know, the age gap right there. And so

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: even though we are adults and we call our our older sister just to have a conversation, you know, see how she's doing, the to see how our nieces and nephews are doing, and she still tries to control us. And you

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: know, and we sometimes talk on the phone, and I be telling my sister, like, I cannot. To get off the phone with her because she thinks that she's the mom, you know.

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: She's the one that's still in control. You know, just hold up. I'm 55 years old. I know what I'm doing now. You know, but I I I I love her for that, you know, because she is just it's just the way she is. And I and always like that with older siblings. The older one is always. put in control of the small ones and it carries on, you know, through life.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah. A and my sister's the same way. She's a little I mean, yeah from time to time. Like you know what I mean? She'll every once in a while, like we do a family thing, she wanna tell everybody what to do. You gotta do this, you gotta do that. I'm like mom is she right there, bro. Like you don't have to tell if mom wanna tell us, mom could tell us. You don't have to tell us. Like we we

Paul Lamar: Okay.

Rod Richard: can handle it. Get out of here, man. Second mom. We don't we don't need your help right now.

Paul Lamar: Yeah, but it

Rod Richard: That's funny.

Paul Lamar: it it's it's it's extraordinary because my older brother James never presented himself like that. He never presented he was more laid back, you know, do do you if you make a mistake, you know, mom or dad might chastise you. My older brother wasn't like that. He was more like lay back, do what you have to do.

Rod Richard: Okay. Okay. That that's a that's a good dynamic though, right? If we're playing off the two of You got one that's a little bit more more intense and you got one that's laid back so you can kinda you can kinda figure out where you fit in at times.

Paul Lamar: Yeah. Yeah.

Rod Richard: So so w what did your what did your parents what did your parents do for for work? 'Cause I I imagine if you know, feeding eighteen people and having having big Sunday dinners is is not, you know, not easy. So what what were they what were they doing for work?

Paul Lamar: Well, my father worked two jobs. He worked for Case. what he did for Case, he worked in a factory. Also, he worked for a Bale City. he worked 16 hours a day. My mother just worked a part-time job. Majority of the

Rod Richard: Okay.

Paul Lamar: time, my mother was was at home. And

Rod Richard: Okay.

Paul Lamar: and as my brothers and sisters began to become 18 and leave the home. They will also have their jobs as as as well. But my daddy worked extremely hard 16 hours a day. Then on the weekend, my daddy had a truck and he would go around into the city and he would pick up junk or furniture and and and move people from apartment to apartment or house to house. And my father used to make money. My father was a hustler. I'm talking about hustler,

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: because he he had to provide for you know a lot of kids. You know what I'm saying? You know, that that man was he was a hard worker. And not only physical, but you know, spiritually and mentally, he was a hard worker. You know, he you know, he 21 children. So you know, you know, having 21 children, my father was putting in time. You know, he was he was really laying the pipe. And my mom was getting

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: a delight. So my father was putting in work, man.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah. Literally. Okay, alright. So so So I read that your your father passed away when you were it was it eight?

Paul Lamar: Yes. Almost eight years old. Yes.

Rod Richard: B so I I s I saw that, but I'm hearing you talk about him and and the way you talk about him with the life and the energy you talk about him, it seemed like it's it would seem like he's he's still around. You know what I mean? If it I would I would have thought that with as many children and working two jobs and the picking up the work on the weekend that being the nineteenth of twenty one, you may not have had as much access to your father. But it but it sounds like he was a larger than life character, like almost like a superhero. Just the way you lit up just now talking about him, right? And and and just the the eight years that you were able to be in his presence, he obviously had a huge impact. And I think that's important to point out only because there's a lot of us that don't have as many things going on as your father had, and we aren't showing up maybe the way that we should. And he did and still is, 'cause I'm telling you, the way you talked about him just now was like he is in the other room. You know what I mean? And that that's something that a lot of us can learn from is that, you know, we we are gonna have a lot of things that we do. We might work two jobs, we might have side hustles, we might have to do a bunch of stuff to to keep the lights on and provide, but there's still a way for you to have impact. And

Paul Lamar: Yes.

Rod Richard: that that's that's that's really cool to hear.

Paul Lamar: Yeah, well, I tell you what, when I was eight years old, I'd never forget my father had passed away, but he left a positive impact on our lives. Even though we were rocked by his death, but he did leave a an impact on our lives. He he was he was a man of character, he was a man that loved his family, he was a man that was chasing after God's own heart. You know, even

Rod Richard: Mm.

Paul Lamar: though he made mistakes, but he provided for us. You know, it it in our society today, I think you would never see a man be so dedicated to one woman where he has 21 children by one woman. You know, now in our society we see men having multiple kids by different women. But my father

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: was dedicated to my To my mother, and also dedicated to the family. And that's that's

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: important. That's important. And he never complained.

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: He never complained about working two jobs. You know, he did what he had to do. And you got some people today in our society complaining about working eight hours a day, you know, 40 hours a week. My father

Rod Richard: Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Lamar: never complained.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah. Th that he was a different breed, that's for sure. Because men like that don't come around often, right? Like that's a that's a that's a special individual. so what what what changed in the house w once once Pops was gone? Like I obviously i th like I say, he had a huge impact, so I'm I'm s I'm assuming his absence was was huge. What what what was the difference when when dad was gone?

Paul Lamar: Well, the different is that once my father had passed away, we began to struggle, you know, financially. We began to struggle

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: financially. And and my, you know, if it wasn't it took, I think it took my mother told us it took about three to six months for her to get the death benefits. And so once that kicked in, things began to improve. But we had struggled, but What really helped us is the community. I'm talking about people would show up at our doors and knock on the door and leave gifts, toys, foods, all on the porch and take off in their cars. That's what they would do. They made sure that the Hunter family did not go without. So I remember a time right before Christmas. We did not have any toys. We did not even have a Christmas tree. But on Christmas Eve, that porch was filled with toys from the people from the community wanted to help out the Hunter family children. So still to this day, I still give thanks to the people in the city of Racine, Wisconsin, because what it did was it showed us that when you are in position.

Rod Richard: Okay.

Paul Lamar: That you have to have a spirit to give to those that are that are less fortunate. And now that we are in position, a lot of my brothers and sisters, they are able to help people in our community. Like my brother, Larry has a nonprofit organization in Memphis, Tennessee, Tennessee called Touch by Angel. He has been feeding the homeless and the poor people in Memphis, Tennessee for the last. 35 years. So he's continued to live out my mom legacy because my mom was the first woman to start a homeless shelter in the city of Racine to house homeless men and women and also give clothing and food to the community. My mom is the first black woman to do that in the city of Racine, Wisconsin.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah, I was gonna I was gonna ask you about that because and that's that's that's that's an amazing thing to do, right? You you you got you got a house full of of of kids and then you you decide, you know what, I'm gonna help some more people. Not not that I don't have enough already, right? I already got enough on my plate, but but there are people who are less fortunate that need help. And so she opens up the shelter. Obviously that has an impact on the community. And and I'm assuming had an impact on you guys as as her children. I I saw somewhere where you said it was like a blessing and a curse. So what was what was the blessing? What was the curse?

Paul Lamar: Well, you know, the blessing was just to be around a lot of homeless men and women, all right, and then to learn about their stories. So here I am, I'm fifty-five years old. So I learned from them. To value education. I learned from them not to use drugs and alcohol. I learned from

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: them to keep my body in good shape. You understand? Physically, keep my mind mentally strong, keep my spirit strong, you know, have a relationship, a connection with God. And I think that the curse was that. we weren't ready as as teenagers, we weren't ready for that lifestyle to help out men and women in the shelter because we wanted to go to different football games, basketball games when we were in junior high school and high school, we wanted to do those activities, but Mom did not allow us to participate in sports, but we just wanted to go out and have a good time with our peers when we were in middle school and high school, but mom did not. So that was kind of like the curse because when we got out of school, we had to go to the shelter right away and help our mother out.

Rod Richard: Yeah, that that's that's fun, man. So so I'm trying to see where I wanna go with that. So

Paul Lamar: Mm-hmm.

Rod Richard: so so we kinda talked about the the gift and the curse, right? And so mom opens up a shelter, th that we all opened up a shelter, right? Like we she she opened up a shelter, everybody's involved, right? It's just the it's a

Paul Lamar: Yes.

Rod Richard: family affair. And and so that cost you guys in some regards just maybe being a kid, doing some of the kid like things, right?

Paul Lamar: Yes.

Rod Richard: But I f I think at the same time there's probably a sense of pride that you had in in like, man, look at all amazing stuff. Maybe not as a kid, you don't think about it that way, but maybe you do, like, that's really cool. Because I remember when I was when I was little, my grandmother had a a boarding care home. And I always thought it was like I didn't understand it completely, but I understood like she was helping people. And when we used to go to her to her house, cause she lived on one side and the the other house on the lot, she had people that lived there. And as as for whatever was going on with them, it was always cool to go hang out and they would talk about stuff. And to kind of similar to what you're talking about. They would tell me stuff. We'd talk about stuff. There's some people that I wasn't supposed to hang out with or be with. So I just stayed away from them because my grandma would get on us. And there's some people she would let us hang out with. But I always remember thinking about how cool it was. One for her to to have a business, but two for have to have hey, can you close that door? Reagan. Sorry. Close the door. My kids they they got another day before they go back to school, so they're out here making all kinds of noise. but I always thought it was really cool of of her to do something like that. Cause I d you know, people people I have friends that my one of my friends had a his dad had a shoe store. you know, people worked in different places, but nobody was like taking care of people, you know? So I I thought that was super cool. So I imagine that there was a pride that you felt, but also maybe some frustration. Like, man, I just want to go to the game. Like I I don't

Paul Lamar: Mm-hmm.

Rod Richard: you know what I mean? did that did that bother you or it was just something you just kind of, you know, this is just what we do.

Paul Lamar: It it it bothered me at first, and now that I'm older now, in retrospect, what she did was she saved us from a lot of drama, a lot of fights that was happening at those particular games. So

Rod Richard: Gotcha.

Paul Lamar: it was a blessing. It really was a blessing. So what mom did was she protect us. She protected us at that particular time. Because when we got back to school, we learned on Monday some of the things that had happened. And reading the newspaper or watching on the news, and we was like, okay, man, God spared us. We, you know what

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: I'm saying? Because we had plans to sneak out of the house and go to the game. You know what I'm saying? But But God spared us and we we decided just to stay in and just help mom out. And it's, you know, like I said, parents are not perfect, but hey, sometime when parents make those, you know, decisions to let you stay in, it's it's it's it's for your best interest and you should listen to your parents.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah. Even and when we're a kid we don't we don't we don't think about it that way, you know, but

Paul Lamar: No.

Rod Richard: but it is definitely something that that we all have to kinda reflect on, as we get older. And then when we become parents, right? 'Cause now we're doing the same thing with our kids, right? We're telling them the stuff that we think is in their best interest and they're looking at us like, Mm, come on, dad. Like I just wanna I'm just gonna hang out with my friends. How bad can it be? and they just don't know, right? They don't know the world that's out outside of our door. You know, they they they've been protected or shielded or whatever by us, rightfully so. And we try to extend that that protection outside of the house and they just like they ain't trying to hear it.

Paul Lamar: Yeah.

Rod Richard: So so I so both my parents or my had a stepdad, stepmom, I got my mom and dad. I I've seen all my parents work and both my dads, my stepdad and my dad say this all the time. They were workaholics. Like my dad worked two jobs my entire life until until recently he retired. He was off work for like six months and then went back. He was like, I just can't do it. He's like, I did all the stuff I'm gonna do around the house. I'm going back to work. my stepdad, I I never knew a time when I was living with my mom and and my stepdad where he didn't work overtime. So I've I've seen I've seen, you know, my family work to provide and it kind of was a trade-off because when they worked, they weren't home. Right. And so it kind of taught me like providing and presence don't go hand in hand. And I had to learn when I got my kids that it it there's g there's a better way to do it, maybe. I don't want to say better way. There's another way to do it where you can you can be present and provide. Did you did you feel any of that with your mom working as well, like and managing the the

Paul Lamar: Well, she she provided, but she wasn't present, you understand? And also

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: my father provided, but he wasn't, you know, present. They was

Rod Richard: Right.

Paul Lamar: more focused on making sure that we had a place to stay, making sure that we had food on our table. And if it wasn't for my older siblings, I believe I would not be here today because my older siblings was like a substitute mother, a substitute father for the young ones.

Rod Richard: Mm.

Paul Lamar: So That what really helped us out is my older siblings, sisters and brothers. And so you got to understand that I might be 55 years old, but I have nieces and nephews that's older than me. You see what I'm saying? So

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: my older siblings, you know, they became like a a substitute, you know, mother or father, you know, for for us. And it really helped us out tremendously. It really did help us out. So, you know, if it if it wasn't for my mom and dad and my older siblings, I would not be here talking to you because they they they made some sacrifices, I can say that. And and

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: and and I understand as a father of four in a grand I have one granddaughter. I understand. You understand? You know, I I really do understand. And I I never forget my father has said one time, when you start having kids, you will understand. And yeah,

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: as a as a as an eight-year-old, you don't understand that. You're not mature

Rod Richard: Right. Not at all.

Paul Lamar: yet. You're not mature yet. But now as you get older and you work hard and you and I'm like, I get it. I get it now.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah. I was I was gonna ask now now that you're you're a father, you got four four children, was there anything that you look back on your own childhood or or your you know your parents and like, all right, I'm they they got me here, I'm grateful, but I'm gonna do something different. Was there anything that you decided as a father you were gonna be different?

Paul Lamar: Yes. most definitely. One thing I wanted to be is present in my kids' life. I made sure that I had an adequate PTO time at my job so

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: I can take off for work and go on field trips with my kids. I wanted

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: to go because my mother couldn't do it, my father couldn't do it. So I I I remember jotting down things that I wanted to do. With my kids. I wanted to do homework with my kids. I wanted to be my kids' teacher. I wanted to be my kids' basketball coach, football coach. You understand? I wanted to be their their counselor. I didn't want to be their friend because I just wanted to be their father, but I wanted to do the things that my mother and father could not have done because they were so busy trying to provide. So

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: When when my son or my daughters had a field trip and they told me the date it was, I would make sure that I had PTO time to take off so I can go on a field trip with them. I made sure that I took walks with my kids. I made sure that I went to the zoo with my children. I made sure that I read with my children. And I and when it came to academics, my I used to tell my kids. Wherever you are weak at, I'm going to make you strong. So I'm going

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: to turn your weaknesses into your strength. And that's what I was able to do.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah. That you know that that field trip and that that that's one of the things so I I I try to make sure that I'm always available whenever I can be for all the all the things, right? My daughter's got a a million different things they're doing. But I'm always like the only dad on the field trips. Or I'm like, you know what I mean? Like we they have like the w the the watchdogs, which is like the dads that come after school and make sure kids are getting across the crosswalks and you know, that kind of stuff, right? But that's like once in a while. When you come to them field trips, man, I'll be the only dad. They give me all the bad kids. Yeah, you take them. And we have a ball though. And I think that's that's important to point out, man. It's that those little things, kids remember forever. Right? Like those little moments. Like we went to to the zoo. I remember my dad. This is the one field trip when I was really little when my dad came to, and I remember like every moment of it. Like it was the o it felt for the longest time it felt like it's the only time I had ever gone to the zoo. You know what I mean? Like everything was crystal clear about the that you know, it was in San Francisco. It was it was foggy crossing the bridge. Like I remember it still to this day. And so for for the guys that are listening, man, if you can if you can, right, and you had the the time and the the abil ability to do it, man, get on them field trips. Be present. Coach coach a sport you ain't never played before. Like get out there and be vulnerable, right? Get out there and and coach five year old soccer and watch run around like, you know, everybody chasing the ball. It's like herding cats. Like put yourself in them uncomfortable positions and and and get involved because not only is it good for you, right, it's good for them.

Paul Lamar: Mm-hmm. And you know what? I'm glad that you said that because I coach all of my kids when it came to sports, basketball, football, you understand? And the relationship that you build with your children. And then you build you and you instill confidence in them and you tell them, I believe in you. I know

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: you can win. And you know what? With all of my children, we won. You know, we started from the bottom. But we worked our way to the top. And I

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: tell my kids today, you guys are champion. You know how to win. You know how to win in life. So there's no excuses. And now I

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: sit back, I sit back and I say, wow, you know, you know, now that they are in their 30s, late 30s and late 20s. And I see them enjoying life and just having a ball because they know that. If they put their mind to anything, they can accomplish anything they want in this world.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah, that's awesome, man. So now now that they're adults, ha has fatherhood I mean you're a grandfather now too, but has fatherhood changed for you?

Paul Lamar: yeah, fatherhood changed, you know, with the one granddaughter. Now my daughter, you know, she got me into coaching her for basketball.

Rod Richard: Hehehehe

Paul Lamar: You know, I had to fight with her because I didn't want to do it. Cause I told her, I prepared you for life. You know how to coach. You know how to prepare. You should do it. no, Daddy, I want you to do it. And so they had

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: me out there coaching basketball and I I enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it. And I'm going to continue to coach my granddaughter and my daughter, she's she's the one of the assistant coaches and my son is one of the assistant coaches. So we have a good time, you know. It's it's it's like doing it all over again, you know.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah. It's hard, man. It's hard. I I've been trying to get out of coaching my my so my oldest plays travel now, travel softball. So I don't coach her. She she plays for organization. So I don't have to worry about it. I got out of that one. But my youngest, every every season, she's still playing in the city league. Every year I'm like, you know, I'm I'm just being assistant. You know, I I don't know if I could take a team And the the league is on me every year and every day she's like, hey dad, are you coaching? Are you gonna coach this year? You're gonna coach this year? So she got me for another season. I'm back on it again. despite

Paul Lamar: Yeah.

Rod Richard: my despite me saying at the end of last season that I wasn't doing it again. but there's something about it, man. It's it like you said, it's the relationships, right? It it's it's

Paul Lamar: Yeah.

Rod Richard: something about that that coach dad. You know, it's just it's just it's different. It's different,

Paul Lamar: Mm-hmm.

Rod Richard: man. So I I highly suggest it. It can be frustrating at times for sure. There's definitely some parents that you don't want to deal with and some other stuff, you know. But it's worth it, man. It's all worth it's worth all the drama is worth it.

Paul Lamar: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, it is. Especially because we we like to watch film together. And

Rod Richard: Okay.

Paul Lamar: also I would have them at that particular time, I would take notes and I would give it to them about their opponents of who they're going to guard and what the opponent's strengths are and what the opponent's weaknesses are. And I tell I would tell my kids, hey, this person cannot dribble right. They can only go left. So I need you to

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: force them, you know what I'm saying, to,

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: to, to go right. I used to sit there and tell them. And then once my kids got to understand and they they watching film with me. You know, Thursday, Thursdays was just when they got out of school, do homework, sit back, relax. Seven o'clock, we watching film for an hour and I'm taking notes and I'm telling them what they need to do. You know, and then Fridays, every Friday we had practice. Saturdays were the game, right before the game, I say, hey, everybody had their notes. Yep, yep. Everybody watched, yep, yep. This is what we need to do in order us in order for us to win. You know, I I like to say to the kids all the time, I used to tell them this we're not going to be a great team now because you guys and women, your skills need to develop. But we

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: are going to be a great team. When you guys get into the fourth and fifth grade, we're going to be able to compete for the championship. And if we get to the championship game, it's not up to me to win it. It's up to you to win it. Because if you took everything that I had taught you, you'll be able to win. And I'm I'm being honest with you, my brother. When them kids got in that fifth grade, do and we made it to the championship, everything that they had learned. They got on that court and just ripped the team apart. I was

Rod Richard: That's that's awesome, man.

Paul Lamar: I was just there to manage the game. That's it.

Rod Richard: Yeah. Yeah. You had already put in all the work though. You had laid the foundation and they they

Paul Lamar: Mm-hmm.

Rod Richard: bought it in. So yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. How old is your your granddaughter now?

Paul Lamar: My granddaughter is seven years old. She's seven. Yep.

Rod Richard: Okay. Okay. So she's she she's just getting into it, starting to kinda get get a little more serious and she got the right coach.

Paul Lamar: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Rod Richard: Okay, all right. So so obviously you got a a lot of stuff going on here. Another thing I wanna touch on. you went back and got your got you got you went back you graduated at forty two, right? You've fifty five now, right? I got the I got my math right. At forty two,

Paul Lamar: Yes. Yes. Yep, I'm fifty five.

Rod Richard: I'm forty three right now. What made you or or like what was it that finally made you say, you know, I'm going back and I'm gonna gonna get this done?

Paul Lamar: I just got s I just got really s you know sick and tired of working these jobs. And at that particular time I was working at Chrysler. Chrysler decide to move the plant over to Mexico. And so I was like sick and tired of it and went to a a work meeting and they had said that we are going to qualify for some training. If you want to go to college, we'll pay for you guys to go to college. You will still you will still get your check, but you would only get 90% of your check. So I took advantage of it. So I said to myself, hold on. I looked at my parents' lineage. People went to college, but they never completed college. So

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: after studying my parents' lineage, I said to myself, I can become the first in our whole entire family to graduate from college because. I can just go out there and just make history. Nobody never did it, so I can become the first. So in in 2010, Christ was shut down. I went back to college and I graduated. I graduated. I received a bachelor's in business administration from Upper Iowa University. So I became the first to lay the foundation in the Hunter family. Now I have a lot of my nieces, nephews. Cousins and relatives went back and received their bachelor's, went back and got their master's degree, and they just go on further and further. So somebody had to lay the foundation. If God used me to lay the foundation, so what? I just

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: was there to lay the foundation. That's all I was there for. And and other people, especially people in the inner city, are able to build. on Paul Lamar Hunter's story. If Paul Lamar Hunter can go through adversity, struggle in life and and look at his struggles and adversity and put it behind him and focus on becoming a better man, focus on achieving his bachelor's of science and business administration, I can do it too.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah. You know what's funny is I was talking to another brother about this on the podcast and he was the first in his family and right after he decided to it was like a a domino effect. Like just people in the family just start like like it was a thing. It's like almost like the like the mile, right? Nobody's ever gonna break

Paul Lamar: Yeah.

Rod Richard: four minutes. And as soon as somebody breaks four minutes, everybody's breaking four minutes now. and it takes it just takes one person, right? It just takes somebody saying, Hey, I'm I'm I'm gonna do it. I know nobody's ever done it before. Why not me?

Paul Lamar: And that and that's that's the a that's that's the mentality that that I had. Why not me? And you know what's interesting is that I come from the inner city and I went to an institution, my brother. And I the the first day I walked into that institution, yes, fear was upon me. Yes, doubt was upon me. But one thing I had a good understanding is that once you walk into an institution. There's only one direction that you can go, and that's up. And I went up. And I am continuing to go up. You know, the year that I graduated is the same year that my book came out, No Love, No Charity, The Success of the 19 Child. And I can declare today, my brother, that the movie will be coming out in 2029 about the Hunter Family Life Story. And because it's it's it's extraordinary to come from a family of of 20 siblings, to come from the inner city, to come from a city of about 90,000, and to make history by writing a book, make history by being in Ebony Magazine twice, make history by being in Black Enterprise, make history by getting. A movie deal done. That is history. That

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: is unbelievable. It's it is extraordinary to see what has happened in my life.

Rod Richard: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No love, no charity, what made you choose that as a title? Could

Paul Lamar: Because it was No Love, No Charity. The title came from my mom. It came from my mom Homeless Shelter. My mom had a homeless shelter called Love and Charity. So I titled my book, No Love, No Charity, The Success of the Nineteen Child. And it's basically, it chronicles my life from being a child from almost dying in a house fire for having children, my relationship with my parents, my relationship with my siblings, my struggle with academics, also being the first to graduate from college, my relationship with my children, how I how I wanted to do things different from my parents, and I was able to accomplish that. And it's it's a it's a story of hope. It's a story that will encourage people to Go out and become successful. Your past does not dictate your future. And it tells people to always put your purpose above your circumstances. It tells people that you are a winner. It tells people that you are a champion. Just surround yourself with positive men and women. That's all you have to do. And you can make it.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hope y'all heard that. I I don't have to repeat nothing there. I hope y'all heard that. so when you write a book like that, a biography, or something that kinda chronicles n not just your life, but I'm sure everyone's life, right? It's talking about everybody, mom, dad, all the sisters and brothers. How did how did people respond to that? Or were you were you even

Paul Lamar: Well

Rod Richard: worried were you worried about that at all?

Paul Lamar: No, I wasn't worried because I had to get a lot of resentment, a lot of animosity, a lot of hurt out of my spirit.

Rod Richard: Mm.

Paul Lamar: If I did not have written that book, I would be an angry man today. You understand? I'm not

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: angry. I'm happy. I'm at peace. I have joy. I have happiness. And so, yes, a lot of my siblings were upset. But once they got the opportunity to read the book, they understood. And it brought closure into my life. It brought closure into their life because what I

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: said in the book was truth. That's what I said was true. And this book right here, it had helped. A lot of men and women in this world. And I have emails from people all over the world that have told me how they had a father that was like my father, how they had a mother that was like my mother. That's why I have said your parents could not give what they didn't have. Mom and dad is not perfect. They just not

Rod Richard: No.

Paul Lamar: perfect. My mom grew up in the Jim Crow era. Segregation, just like my dad. My mom had witnessed her cousin being lynched while she's hiding behind a house. You understand that? So

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: you don't know what happened that caused my mom to think the way she thinks, the trauma that she had experienced as a child. It affected my mom. My mom and dad used to always say to us. that they were taking their past to the grave of some of the things that they had experienced in their childhood, that they was taking it to the grave. Where here I am as a 55-year-old man, I'm not taking it to the grave. I'm letting people know.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I think that's important, man. I think that's something that happens a lot and and obviously there's a lot of people that listen to the podcast, but I'm speaking to my own personal experience as a as a black man and that I grew up in a black family. We we'll keep it in what happens in this house stays in this house kind of idea. We we keep everything close to the vest. We don't we don't want to share our our story outside of this household or outside of this family. But sometimes, man, that's the only way to get out of it. You know what I mean? That's the only way to get through it. It's otherwise, like you said, you you'd still be frustrated. You still be an angry man. Right? It would still probably be some resentment towards particular family members or towards and they don't get that's not good for any of us. You know what I mean? Like holding that stuff in, it only affects us. It affects those around us. It's always good to get it out. You just gotta be tactful about how you do it, but it's always it's always good to get it out, right? It's it's not you're not saving anybody by by protecting it and keeping it in.

Paul Lamar: I mean that's what I'm saying.

Rod Richard: I think especially especially as as as older 'cause I know my my grandma was was one of those like whatever happens in this house stays in this house. Don't be telling our business nowhere, right? And so whatever we w was going on, nobody else better know about it. Right. Like or some if something happened and somebody came back and told her, she knew that somebody in the house said something about it. So we was all in trouble. and so I I I fully understand that, but I understand your your stance in it and and it's like, hey man, there's there's a truth that needs to be told. And

Paul Lamar: Yes.

Rod Richard: and and by doing that, even if other families or other people aren't also sharing their story, they're able to see yours, hear yours, watch yours in in the movie theaters and be like, man, you know, it it may be freeing for them to to kind of live through you and your story.

Paul Lamar: Yes, yes. And people are going out and they purchase my mom's book and my book. And and when they read the book, they say, man, your story relates to my story, how I would how I grew up. You know,

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: I I I talk about how none of my siblings or my mom, my especially my mom, did not come to my graduation when I graduated from college. And I wanted

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: people to know that because my mother used to always say that she did not want her children to become successful in life at all. And I I find that very intriguing. So when I graduated, my mom and my siblings had an opportunity to come to my graduation, but they they didn't.

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: And I did not hold any resentment or animosity toward them. You understand? But now they know that my success was part of their success. You see what I'm saying?

Rod Richard: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Paul Lamar: Yeah, my success was part of their success. Because if it wasn't for my mom and also my older siblings pouring into my life, I'm telling you, I would not have completed completed college whatsoever. And so I think my mother, my father, and and and my siblings. You know, it w it was a part of my journey. And I know some

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: people hold bitterness on the inside. I'm not, I'm not holding that on the inside. Life is too short. I love my mother. I love my father. I love my siblings. I'm not holding anything against them because as a coach, it's it's it's about it's about the win. It's about the team. You know what I'm saying? So If if if I win, they win.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah. Ca can we can we go back to that for a second when you say your mom didn't want any of her children to be successful? What do you mean by that?

Paul Lamar: Because, you know, my mom looked at her at as herself as very successful because she did not graduate from high school. she did not graduate from college, but she had a successful homeless shelter. So she looked at that as, you know, success. You understand? And

Rod Richard: Hm, okay.

Paul Lamar: so, you know, when you read my book, you would never see that I have a picture with my mom after I graduate. You would never see that in there. Because after I graduated from college, I drove all the way. I drove six hours back by myself. And I wanted to take a picture with my mom at the homeless shelter, but my mom refused to take a picture with me. But my mom said something to me that still stays with me to this day. My mom has said that a child is not supposed to be successful until the parents are deceased. That stayed with me

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: for years and years. And you know. Speaking to a mentor, my mentor told me there's two things. One, she was jealous of you. Two, she did not want you to outdo what she did accomplishing

Rod Richard: Mm.

Paul Lamar: life. But I did not hold that against my mother, you know, whatsoever. Because I have children and I tell my kids all the time that you cannot hold on. To what people have done to you because it's going to eat you up on the inside. And I know people walking around today, my brother, that is filled with so much hate toward their sibling, toward their dad, toward their mom. And I have to tell them, you have to let it go. If you do not let it go, you will never grow in life. You will never reach the potential that God's want you to reach in life. You are going to

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: die a young man or a young woman if you don't let it go.

Rod Richard: Again, I don't have nothing to add to that. That is exactly it. Nail on the head right there. Yeah, that that's interest that's the interesting I'll I've n I haven't heard that before. you know, that the child's not supposed to be successful to a parent passive, but I I mean I can s I can see I can see it somewhat, you know? Like it but dang man. That's gotta be tough. Like that had to be tough, right? Like

Paul Lamar: It was tough at the moment when she said it. It was tough. It startled me for a while. It stayed. That's why I can still recite it. You know what I'm saying? Because it's it's in my subconscious mind. But it motivated me. It really, really motivated me to really go out there and push it and push it and push it. And that's the reason why I was able to get the movie deal. That's the reason why I was able to get in Ebony Magazine and Black Enterprise is because, you know, words can either harm you, or words can either help you to

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: become the best person God wants you to be. And so that's what it did. It helped me to become the best person that I am today.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah. And in hearing you talk about it too, like just just in how in this conversation, there's there's like there's a lot of gratitude, right?

Paul Lamar: Yes, yes.

Rod Richard: There there's like you're grateful for even even though it may have been rough or or difficult or you know, I'm I'm sure there were times where you you know there was there was stress and strain and people w w everything wasn't wasn't wasn't smooth, right? No nothing is smooth. Right. But

Paul Lamar: Nothing.

Rod Richard: I'm sure there was times where it was it was terrible and you you couldn't stand people and all that kind of stuff, right? But it just

Paul Lamar: Yes.

Rod Richard: in this conversation is is gratitude. I'm so thankful for what they did. I'm I'm thankful for how they raised me. I'm thankful for and I think that goes a long way. Right. Like gratitude is is one of those things that I think we take for granted a lot of times. you know, we don't we aren't as grateful for 'cause there's just little stuff. Like you just woke up this morning. That's enough. No matter what happens

Paul Lamar: Mm-hmm.

Rod Richard: today, and I think a lot of times we're so focused on the negative. Like we'd be having a really good day and one bad thing happened and we'd be telling people, man, I had the worst day of my life today. You know what I mean? Like but but y you've you've lived through and are still living through, but have have painted it and put the gratitude part first, which is which is im is important because it then you can carry it differently. Right, like you can handle it differently. Like you said, you could be very angry, you could be very frustrated, but you seem you seem to be very happy. So

Paul Lamar: Man I I'm I'm telling you, brother, I am so happy because, you know, like I had said, I did not let those words hinder my purpose at all. And I thank Dr. Phil, I thank Vivica A. Fox, because they opened up the door for me to come on their show and sit down and have a conversation, just like you and I are having a conversation. And we talked about some tough things. That I had

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: said in this book. And after that episode, they were able to, they were able to help me and also some of my siblings see a psychologist. You understand? And I think that

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: every person that has grew up in the hood might not have grew up in the hood, but just have been beaten down spiritually, mentally. Physically, they need somebody to talk to. They need a psychologist. They need a relationship therapist to help them on this life that we call journey. And that's how you begin to heal because you're talking about it and things are being purged out of your heart. Because a lot of people's heart can be filled with negativity and it needs to be purged out. And with it need to be purged out, and then you need to. put into your subconscious mind is positive thoughts, positive things that can really change your life.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That that is that's that's the thing, right? And that's that's tough, you know. It it it's necessary, but it's tough, right? 'Cause you then you have

Paul Lamar: Yes.

Rod Richard: to then you have to face those things. The stuff we may have stuffed down deep and we don't talk about or you know, the the the the feelings and emotion especially as men, right? We don't we don't really talk about emotions and feelings. Like that's that's like the furthest thing from what we want to do. you know, we're not going out and intentionally trying to start conflict and we definitely aren't trying to do it internally. and so it's difficult to to do what you're saying, but that doesn't mean it isn't to be done, right? Like it is it is necessary in order to be the leader you want to be, to be the man you wanna be, to be the father you want to be, or the husband you wanna be. You gotta do the work with yourself first, right? man. So let me let me ask you this. I I I got a I got a couple of of questions. 'Cause we I I know you we talked about it earlier. we talked about, you know, one of the things that you wanted to do when you became a father was be present. And now that your your f your children are adults, you're still present, right? 'Cause you're present in in their lives as adults. You're you're present with your grandchildren. What is what is maybe one thing that you've learned in your journey o of fatherhood and maybe still learning? about presence that you could share with a with another for somebody along the journey, right? Could be a new dad, could be, you know, teenage dad, almost adult dad, adult dad, about being present. 'Cause you've been present in every phase so far.

Paul Lamar: I think what I had learned is as they make their transition, you know, from grammar school to middle school to high school to college and now adults and they have their own career. Always be present, always have the line of communication open. I tell my kids all the time, even though the oldest one is 32 years old, I tell all the time, listen here, I don't care what time it is. At night, you have access to me. Whatever is going on you in your life, call me. It does not matter. My line is open 24 hours. I don't care if you might

Rod Richard: Anyway.

Paul Lamar: say, dad got to work. It does not matter. Call me. So you got to continue to communicate with them and you continue with that relationship with them. Even though they are adults, they're not, you know, in your mind, you Those are your children, you understand? But they are adults.

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: So the relationship, it changes, but you still have to be present. But the communication, the line of communication has to be available to them 24 hours a day. And you know, like I said, I I I I'm around them. I I have my business and I make sure that my kids are present in my business. Because I wanted them to have certain positions in my company. Why? Because I love being around my children. You understand? And I'm learning from them, and they are learning from me. And so when I make that transition, I hope they will say one day, he was a great communicator. He was present. He he taught us basketball, football. He used to always say, I'ma turn your weakness into your strength. You know what I'm saying? And all of my kids, they were, they were right-handed. Everything that I did, I made sure they did it with their left hand. You understand? So

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: I know they're gonna say some positive things about me. But like I said, I think you need to be present, always have the line of communication open and let them know at No matter what is going on in their lives, always put God first because God is number one and God must be present in your life in order for you to win.

Rod Richard: Yeah, I agree. I agree completely. Looking looking back on it, what is well, maybe not even looking back on it, might be able to look at it right now. What is maybe one thing that because I we always talk about generational curses and all these kind things, right? You hear people talking about it, it came a buzzword for a while, and everybody's trying to break just generational curses and create generational wealth and all that. What is what is maybe one family pattern that, you know, when you became a father that you're proud that you stopped, right? Like the buck stops here with you.

Paul Lamar: I think education, receiving my bachelor's degree. I said I I told myself it it stops. It stops right here. It stopped right here. We're gonna move forward. we're gonna put education at the top and and and also we're not gonna struggle anymore financially. You know what I'm saying?

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: We're going to be better thinker when it comes to spending our money and making sure that we are leaving. generational wealth to our descendants. It it it stops

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: right here. We're not just gonna spend money just to spend money. You know what I'm saying? Living from paycheck to paycheck. We're not doing that anymore. Those days are over with.

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: It's completely over with. We're going to invest and we're going to not only invest, but we're gonna set up generational wealth for the next generation. Cause I did I do not want my children to struggle the way that I had to struggle and go without. So my children

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: have been absolutely blessed not to experience what I had experienced. You know, my kids, I used to tell my children, you know, I used to get a whooping with a stitching cord with a belt. And I said sometime. my mama or daddy would pick up a shoe and throw it at us. They didn't, they didn't, they was just taking

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Paul Lamar: aback. I said, yeah, that's the way it used to be. And I said,

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: I hit you right here on the hand and you complain. get you on the with your hand when you were small. Here you are 30 some years old and you still complaining about that. Yeah.

Rod Richard: Yeah, it's is it's different, man. And my kids it's funny because I I had similar, right? Extension cords, belts, whatever they can get their hands on, right? that's just what you got. And and it was anybody in the family. Ma any of my aunts, my uncles, if you was you was out of line, you got disciplined by whoever was close to you. and so that meant that it could be anything. It could be a wow, a wooden spoon. it's still nightmares about wooden spoons. But My kids, if I slightly raise my voice, they they they act like I just I just tore a a new one. you know. But that's

Paul Lamar: Well

Rod Richard: one of the things that I'm proud that I was able to to pass down. You know, it's like there's a other way there's other ways. Again, I won't I don't want to say better ways, 'cause the way you handle your your kids is the way you handle your kids. I'm not here to tell anybody, you know, what to do. But there is another way, right? There's a way to handle that. There's a way to to discipline and there's a way to encourage that doesn't involve fear. it doesn't involve pain necessarily, right? That there's a there's a way to do it. And it's like one of those things where I can't imagine that my girls grew up or grow up, continue to grow up in the house that they're growing up in and then they you know they have my grandkids and they they handing out handing out beatings. You know like I I don't I don't imagine that to happen. So that's something that that stopped here, right? Like it it stopped here and and similarly like being able to pass down some wealth to them, right? When I pass there's gonna be money That's gonna be transferred into their names and into a trust money and and and and and items in a trust already for them. So I already know that they're gonna be taken care of. And then that conver because of that, my grandchildren be taken care of. And that's that's what we're all trying to do now. And I think that's that's very it's it's unfortunately somewhat new in the community. You know what I mean? Like I felt like that for

Paul Lamar: Yes.

Rod Richard: a long time we got passed down debt. You know? Like we

Paul Lamar: Yeah.

Rod Richard: Your parents have passed away and now we got we we gotta try to figure out how to bury number one, and then we got this house that ain't nobody paid taxes on in a few years, so now we're about to lose you know what I mean, like we we've inherited debt and I think it's it just takes one person, right? One person to to start it. 'Cause in your family in in particular, right? If you're the first one to get to get a degree and then nobody came to see you get this degree, but then all of a sudden people are starting to get degrees in the family. Like you know what I mean? Like, wait a minute now. Like I I'm not gonna go celebrate you but I might tell my niece, my nephew, my my daughter, my son, my grandchild, Yeah, you go ahead and get you a degree. You know what I mean? Like you go ahead and get you one, you know what I mean? Like it it just changed the conversation. And I think that that that echoes throughout eternity.

Paul Lamar: Yes it does. Yes it does. And that's why I am so delighted to see some of my nephews and nieces go and get their degrees and and just live a productive life. That's it.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah. You know, that that makes me think, you know, a lot of times you we talk to dads and they're like, you know, they don't there's here's what I get a lot. There's like there's guys who who didn't have their father around so they're they're not sure how to be a father, other than the example of, well he didn't do this, so I'm gonna do these things, right? But they don't really know. They're just trying to figure it out. And all of us are really trying to figure it out. So I always kind of put that there too. Or they come from a a background where the father was present but he was present in this way and so they they just replicate what their father did. I think your story kind of gives us the the the idea or the thought that it doesn't matter where you came from, right? Like you can create something different. So what would you say to to one of those dads, a guy that's listening is kind of maybe feeling trapped by where he came from? You know, cat a tough up bringing pops wasn't around, didn't really learn nothing from had some some ups and downs and some trials and some tribulations. And like now I'm I I am who I am. I hear that a lot. I that's just me. That's who I am. What would you say to to somebody that that's maybe in that scenario?

Paul Lamar: I think first thing I would tell them to find them a positive mentor, somebody that's going to pour into their life. It does not matter where you've been in in life, it's where you're going. If you want to be successful, I don't care where you've been, you can be in the in the ability. Abyss. You can come from the abyss all the way to the top. You just need to surround yourself with positive men and women, people that's going to build you up and not tear you down. So what you grew up in poverty. So what you've been neglected. So what you've been abused. One thing I know you can become is a successful person. In life, you can change your mindset, my brother. If I can come from the inner city and change my mindset, you can change your mindset. I have talked to so many men that have been abused mentally, spiritually, physically, and guess what? They have been restored. You can be restored. Just surround yourself with positive men and women. Get a mentor in your life because Paul Amar Hunter wants to see you succeed.

Rod Richard: Yeah, we all do, man. I I wanna see you guys succeed. So if you're hearing that, you know, you you you there there are there's help out there. There's mentors everywhere. it sometimes feels like you're all alone and sometimes it feels like or society tells you, you know, they say it now, you gotta get it out the mud or you gotta there's there's glorification around I did it all by myself and you know, but man, nobody really does it by themselves. Nobody does it on their own. You don't have to. You shouldn't. Right? Life is not meant to be lived on its own. That the path to success or the life that you want to lead is not meant to be journeyed by yourself. that that's why you go when you go to another country or you go or or or to another city or another state, you get a tour guide. Right? So they can show you the right places to go. Right? They can show you the the hot spots in the city, they can show you the landmarks, they can tell you where to go and what to do, because they've been there before. Right?

Paul Lamar: Yeah.

Rod Richard: And and if they haven't been there before, they can at least tell you that I have not been there before. So I don't know. You know what I mean? We we might have to find that out together, but at least we go together. Right? Because if we're gonna go to the unknown, at least we can go to unknown with company. Right? I'd I'd rather I'd rather go into the the dark the dark room with with somebody else than to go in there by myself. So we have to get you a mentor. You have to get you somebody that can guide you, who can lead you. There's nothing wrong with that. You know what I mean? Everybody has one. Y your favorite superstar, celebrity, has has a coach or has a mentor. you know, there's no there's no one person that makes it to to the to the top without it. there have been some people who who have may maybe maybe miracles and and miraculous things that happen, but it's not it's not the no it's not the norm. You know.

Paul Lamar: Yes.

Rod Richard: So yeah, that was that yeah, that I think I think fellas definitely need to hear that. Now now let me ask you, if if if guys wanna grab the book, either your b well both, y not the book, both books, right? Your mother's book and your book, where where would where would you suggest we send them?

Paul Lamar: You you can go to Barnesand Noble.com, Amazon.com. The book is available on Amazon, like I said, Barnes and Noble, any bookstore you can purchase the book. You can get it on your your Kindle. it's a it's a great read. Like I said, it has been adapted into a screenplay. The movie will be coming out 2029. It's going to be the story of the Hunter family, how my mother, the only woman in the world, birthed 21 children by my, by my dad, 65 grandchildren, and 150 great grandchildren. It is an amazing book. And once the movie comes out, I'm coming back on your podcast. And we just gonna talk about the movie and

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: we just gonna, we just gonna, we just gonna blow it up, you know, and just have some

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: fun.

Rod Richard: Yeah. You know what? I I wanna ask you because I know a lot of times and me and my me and my wife, and my my daughters actually were just talking about this. So there's the children of blood and bone, are you familiar with that that movie? Is

Paul Lamar: No, no.

Rod Richard: it was a book. It was a book and now it's the movie coming out later this year. It was actually three books and they adapted the first one into a movie. and it's it was a young black author. I think she was like nineteen or twenty when she wrote it. and it's kind of like a sci fi thing, but it's set in an all black kind of world, right? and so recently she had kind of came out and said, you know, they they aren't exactly doing the movie the way I wrote it. It's not, it's not hitting exactly the way it's supposed to. And I read somewhere The Shining, Stephen who was this is it Steven Spielberg did the Shining? One of somebody, whoever wrote The Shining, he kind of felt like it they that they made the movie, but it wasn't the same as the book. What is the one thing that they have to get right when they make this movie?

Paul Lamar: Well, I can tell you this. the books are totally different from the movie. It it it it's just like that. They don't go

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: they don't go in, they they they read the books, all right. My mother book and my book they have their own version of how they want the movie to be portrayed. So

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Paul Lamar: some of it is non-fiction, some of it is fiction.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah.

Paul Lamar: So you're gonna say the same thing. Hey, I read the book and then I watched the movie, and it's like, it's not it. So some stuff,

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah. That's funny.

Paul Lamar: some stuff in my book and in my mother book, they use other stuff, they just adapt into it. You know, they it

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah.

Paul Lamar: they are the storytellers, I should say.

Rod Richard: Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah, it's it's funny you said that 'cause when the game stands tall is a a movie about De La Salle High School and they're like there hundred they won like a hundred games in a row. So my cousin went there and we had some friend mutual friends that also played there. And so the year that the movie is is based on, one of my friends was was number fifteen. and in the movie he's a jerk. And I was like, dude, what I'm like, bro, what that's this can't be you. Like this is no way this is you. He was like, Yeah, man. I I was like, I don't know who they thought I was. Man, they put they took your number and your and your last name and turned you into a monster, bro.

Paul Lamar: Ha ha ha ha ha.

Rod Richard: But hey man, that that happens, right? It's once once it you

Paul Lamar: Well

Rod Richard: they they adapted to what they you know, what works for movies and that that makes sense.

Paul Lamar: Yeah.

Rod Richard: Okay. Okay, all right,

Paul Lamar: Mm.

Rod Richard: all right. Well let let's just let's just make let's hope they don't turn you into a monster. All right. Let's just keep you we keep keep we're

Paul Lamar: No.

Rod Richard: gonna keep Paul Paul. All

Paul Lamar: Yes.

Rod Richard: right. if if guys are wanting to reach out other other than to get the book and they just want to reach out and say, you know, thank you for for all that you've done, thank you for the book, thank you for joining us on the podcast and spending the time is there is there a way for them to reach out or if they wanna get more information, right? Or if they wanna, you know, to reach out to you in in in some other way. what's the best way for them to do that?

Paul Lamar: Well, they can visit my website, paulamarhunter.com. Paul LamarHunter.com. I I am on Facebook, Instagram, on social media platforms under the name paulamarhunter.com.

Rod Richard: Okay, perfect, perfect. I'll make sure all that's in the show notes. I'll make sure I have the link to the books in the show notes and all that stuff will be covered. So, you know, fellas, if you're listening while you're you're driving or you know you're working out and listening to the podcast or whatever you do while you listen to the podcast, just scroll on down once you stop or scroll on down once you finish, hit the link. make sure you go follow Paul, make sure you go grab the book, make sure you reach out and give him some virtual high fives and some thank yous because that goes a long way. I said this to you before we started and I'm saying it again. I I completely appreciate you being here and spending the time. I thank you for sharing your story. because as as we said on during this

Paul Lamar: It's like

Rod Richard: episode, like it it goes a long way to help somebody else, right? To to hear your your story, your your your rise, your overcoming, you're going through things. You're you're you're the first one to graduate, you're the nineteenth of twenty one. You You know what I mean? Your your mom is the first to ever you know have a have a homeless shelf. There's so many things that happen in in in your life story that I think someone can grab a hold of and and resonate with and and link up with and and then ultimately at the end see the success that comes with it. I I appreciate you taking the time to to not, you know, what stays in this family, what happens in this family stays in this family, but to go outside of that and share with us. I really, really appreciate it, man. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Paul Lamar: Hey, thank you for having me on and I hope to see you in twenty twenty nine so we can talk about the movie.

Rod Richard: Man, let you know what we should do. We should we should do like the movie premiere and we should do like a you know a red carpet interview and like the whole the whole thing, man. I wanna I wanna be in the crowd, you know. I I'll I'll get me a nice little you know, a nice little suit, something to go out there and celebrate with you. That that's awesome, man. Like I I'm really looking forward

Paul Lamar: Yeah.

Rod Richard: to it. And actually I gotta I gotta grab the book now. I just told somebody this earlier because of the podcast and because I talk to people all the time, I have this growing list of books that I'm trying to chip away at. And every time I talk to somebody, they give me another book. And I'm like, thank you. But dang, man, I'm never gonna stop reading. But no,

Paul Lamar: Okay.

Rod Richard: thank you. I'm I'm gonna go ahead and grab grab both of them because I I think I think it's it's probably necessary to read both halves. It's probably like two sides to a coin, right? So

Paul Lamar: Yes, yes.

Rod Richard: definitely need to have the perspective of both sides. And so I'm I'm I'm gonna go ahead and grab those and I look forward to talking to you soon.

Paul Lamar: All right, thank you. I appreciate it.

Rod Richard: Absolutely, absolutely. Have a have a blessed day and I'll I'll talk to you talk to you soon.

Paul Lamar: All right, thanks.