Retirement Planning for Fathers: Money, Marriage, Identity and Purpose

Rod Richard: the question is probably not so much of how much money you need, but what are you retiring to? instead of what are we I'm retiring with, what am I retiring to and what does that actually mean?

Chris Maduri: If I'm Chris the fireman for the last thirty years and now I'm just Chris and I don't know who Chris is or what he likes to do or how he likes to spend time. it's really easy to feel very unfulfilled. I don't know if you've heard the term like grey divorce, you're seeing that more and more where people are getting to that age and going, life is too short. This person is w we're just going in very different directions. We've been in very different places for so long, but work has masked that. the accumulation of those choices was leading me to a negative place and I wasn't happy with myself. I wasn't happy with the way that I felt, I looked, how I communicated with other people. And it wasn't like I turned my life upside down. It was just like little by little, like, okay, I started to open my life up to God and allow God to kind of direct my life instead of me directing it.

Rod Richard: Today's episode is about retirement, but probably not in the way you expect. See, most men spend decades working, providing, meeting deadlines, and building their life for their families. Then one day, the job ends. The paycheck may have been planned for, but the loss of routine, identity, responsibility, and direction often has not. My guest today is Chris Maduri. Chris has spent nearly two decades helping people prepare for retirement. After beginning his career shortly before the 2008 financial crisis, He developed an approach centered on the predictable income, risk management, and plans that stand up when conditions are less than perfect. But Chris also believes that retirement planning has to go beyond money. It should address your marriage, your health, relationships, purpose, and the question every man eventually has to answer. What are you retiring to? Today we're talking about fatherhood, provision, presence, identity, and how a man can prepare for the fourth quarter of life. All right, welcome back to the Forfeit Fatherhood Podcast, a podcast for fathers by fathers, where we talk about the four pillars of fatherhood, which are faith, family, finance, and fitness. And I'm excited to have a guest with me again today. we're gonna be talking about fatherhood, obviously, but there's some some talks about later stage fatherhood, what we call like maybe fourth quarter fatherhood, that we'll get into. my d my guest today is Chris Maduri. Chris, how you doing today, brother?

Chris Maduri: I'm doing great. How about yourself?

Rod Richard: I'm doing well. As I as I said to you, pre-pod, I'm it's getting warmer in here and the guys who have listened to the podcast know what I'm talking about. It is it is heating up. it's you know Southern California. I think when I when I looked last it was already 80. it's looking to be in the the high 90s today, so it's gonna be a a hot one in here and it just is what it is.

Chris Maduri: Well you stay cool in there and you know we'll we'll if you need to stop, you need to stop. So

Rod Richard: Yeah, I'll be alright. What what I'm what I'm concerned about is I promised my daughters we're gonna go to the park. 'cause my oldest daughter has a softball tournament this week. I was like, All right, we'll go to the park and we'll do some hitting and some fielding stuff and I'm like, man, it's hot in here. That means it's hot out there, so I'm gonna be out there sweating no matter what.

Chris Maduri: We my daughter had softball last night, so we're

Rod Richard: Okay.

Chris Maduri: we're right in the the thick of it there. How old is your daughter?

Rod Richard: so my oldest is thirteen, she'll be fourteen in two weeks. And then my youngest

Chris Maduri: That's awesome.

Rod Richard: is eleven, yeah.

Chris Maduri: Perfect. Yeah. We got two almost the same age. I got a fifteen and a ten. So we're right behind you.

Rod Richard: Nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. so let's I mean for the guys in that don't maybe haven't maybe heard of you before or don't know who you are, would you tell them a little bit about yourself?

Chris Maduri: Yeah. I am born and raised in Connecticut. grew up in Stanford, Connecticut, living in Darien now and have four beautiful children and a beautiful wife. you know, I would say in their ages. So I got fifteen, fourteen, a ten and an eight. And it's just been such a blessing to be able to parent them and you know play a instrumental role in their lives and yeah, during the day I am a retirement planner, financial planner and try to work peop with people on preparing for retirement, mostly not only from a financial standpoint, but also the the spiritual, the emotional and really trying to find purpose in retirement. So it's been a a blessed, beautiful life here.

Rod Richard: Yeah, awesome. So let me I think I got this. So you got two boys and two girls. Is that what we look? Yeah. How how is that, right? 'Cause I only have two girls. I my friends most for the most part either have just have like only girls or only boys. I think I have one friend that has a mixture. What is it like when you have, you know, both both in the house? Like how 'cause I know for me I'm definitely a different person now that I have daughters, right? Like it definitely changed

Chris Maduri: Sure.

Rod Richard: me. and I can imagine they your daughters had that effect on you, but you're also raising sons. How do you kind of navigate being being both of those fathers? I g or maybe maybe you know what, maybe not even being both of those fathers. You probably have to be four fathers 'cause you're a different father for each kid.

Chris Maduri: Yeah, that and that's a great point. every child's different. Every what every child needs is gonna be different. you know, I'm a twin and my wife's a twin as well. And you know, my I have an identical brother and it's like we look alike, but we're two unique personalities. And I think that's one of the interesting I don't wanna say mistakes that parents make, but we're always so worried about I don't know if you grew up hearing the expression like even Steven and making sure that everyone kind of gets the same, but everyone's needs are different. And so really just trying to understand their personalities, making sure that they're heard and listened and valued in their own way. And yeah, the boys are a little bit different than girls. I think the biggest, and someone had said recently, they're like, For boys, having self-control is almost more important than having self-worth in a way. And you kind of experience that because, you know, it's like you're wrangling an animal at times, with my youngest

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: in particular. I'm like, why are you climbing the street sign to our road and he's eight and he's just like such a a wonderful light? But as someone that has like anxiety and is constantly concerned with people what people are thinking of me. And I'm like, you just have no shame, my friend. Like you're gonna go pee in our front yard right now.

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: so it's a little bit different. but you know, at the end of the day, each child I think has their own set of needs and we try to, you know, address them as best we can.

Rod Richard: Yeah. You know, that's interesting. I think I think I've heard kind of similar similarly. But I think with girls there's a more of a an interest in in building their self worth. just society wise, right? Like because girls tend to be scrutinized a little bit more about themselves, right? Like who they are, how they look, that kind of stuff, right? whereas whereas boys, mm, they don't really care. Not not not for a long time, right? Not until they start caring

Chris Maduri: Mm-hmm.

Rod Richard: about girls, right? For a long time they don't care. They'll you know they they they roll around in the dirt. they don't want to take baths, they wanna take shower. Like

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: they they don't care what they look like, you know? they just they don't care what people think about they just wanna have fun. whereas whereas girls are like, you know, a little bit more concerned about that stuff. And so I think I know what I've noticed for me is like I do have to kind of affirm them and build them up and and you know, their self worth up to a certain point was somewhat based on what me and my wife kind of affirmed in them, right? Like our

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: our thoughts on their identity kinda gave them right their identity or kind of positioned them to embrace a certain identity about their self. And I think with boys, you're right, self control probably is a little bit more important is 'cause you know, a little I I was a little boy at one point and I just did whatever I wanted to do, whatever I thought was fun. I was just gonna do it. and that can definitely get you in trouble if you don't have any self control.

Chris Maduri: Yeah, yeah, you see it. I had coached my son in football this year and I'm used to coaching my daughter and the girls and they listen or at least pretend to listen. You're coaching eight-year-old boys and

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: there there's like nothing. And I'm going, all right, I'm not gonna yell, I'm not gonna yell, and you start to get louder and louder. I'm like, Well, by the thirteenth time you said something, if you're just escalating your tone a little bit It's gonna get pretty loud. It's like they

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: they just don't have the ability to like sit still and to

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: take anything seriously. And part of that's beautiful, but it is incredibly frustrating, you know, at the same time.

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: Yeah, I mean you make such a good point with the the girls and the and affirming them. They have to be built up in a different way. And

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: i i it's tough because you want to be like, it doesn't matter what you look like, it doesn't matter. But you know it's important to them and

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: you're kind of striking that balance between knowing that your worth comes from God and it's not based on what you do, it's based on who you are.

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: and making sure that that foundation is built, but also taking an interest and not like dismissing the fact that, yeah, they want to get their hair done, they want to do their nails, they wanna look pretty, they wanna do all of these things, and encouraging that as well because it's important. If it makes you feel good, as long as it's for the right reasons, then I wanna support that and I wanna make you feel good. And I like a good pedicure too, so it works out well.

Rod Richard: Yeah, my my daughters have been trying to get me to get my like paint my nails their entire lives. And not that I like I don't think anything of it. I just don't want my nails painted. Like you know what I mean? Like I've got friends that have done it with their daughters. I'm like, I just look, I'll go with you, I'll get the pedicure. I'm not I'm not getting the the clear polish. I'll get them buffed. Cool, right? Like the the the whole experience of getting pampered is amazing. I just don't Because after this moment where we leave the shop and I have my nails painted, now I've gotta have paint it for like the next week and a half, you know? And I'm like, I I don't know, that's

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: just not a I'm nothing against it. It's just not me personally, but they they love it. They love all the stuff. They've especially now, as my youngest is going into sixth grade, my oldest is going into high school, they are fully leaning into being teenager and teenager like wanting to to do lip gloss and make sure their hair is done and when we need to leave the house now it takes forever because they gotta get their hair just right or they gotta get their c this th they they're you know asking each other how does this look and they're trying stuff on and I remember when they were little it was just like whatever we put on the bed that's what they put on and that was it and we were gone and now it's like a whole thing.

Chris Maduri: Yeah, yeah, it's crazy how it changes and it feels like it's overnight. You know,

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: that someone was just like a little girl and then you're like, shoot you know, like my daughter's got a boyfriend now. Like and it's it's yeah, it it's it's an adjustment and he's wonderful, you know, and you're you're happy for them and you try to pace it and at the same time, like you don't wanna be y you want to be able to talk to you, right? 'Cause you feel like if you don't establish communication early on, you you're not gonna do that when they're sixteen years old, right? So you want to be comfortable talking to you and knowing that you're not there to just either dismiss it or to tell them what they're doing wrong. You know, to r to really listen. you know, to what they have to say and to, you know, just have an an open dialogue. 'Cause if you're just cutting it down, they're just gonna close up on ya.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and and and I think what I've noticed is in any conversations that are just already awkward, if you don't have established communication, they become unbearable. Right? Like it's just

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: what are we talking about? Why are we doing this? She doesn't want to talk about it, I don't want to talk about it, let's leave it alone. So

Chris Maduri: Hey

Rod Richard: we try to have like these conversations as often as possible. It's it's one thing I I've I've always told guys and this is something I learned from my dad as it's more husband and wife relationship, but he he used to tell me, you know, you you want to talk about war in times of peace. Like the way you're gonna handle things that are uncomfortable, you want to have those conversations before they happen because in the midst of it, neither one of you are gonna say the thing that you really want to say. And so how you handle things is important to talk about when everything is going well, right? And honestly, I

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: don't wanna talk about conflict when we're not having conflict, but it definitely helps. And so I'd I've I've tried with my daughters is J like I said, j we were just on vacation and we've had the kind of birds and bees talk before, but now as she's going into high school, there's gonna be older boys who are deeper into that and and you know more more attracted to girls and that whole thing is gonna be elevated exponentially, right?

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: Because I was a high school boy. Me and her mom have been together since I was a sophomore and she was a freshman. So I'm like, I

Chris Maduri: Wow.

Rod Richard: know I know what that's like and I know it's coming, so we gotta have these conversations. Was really smooth, right? Because it wasn't the first time we ever talked about it, it wasn't the first time we ever had an uncomfortable uncomfortable conversation. And it was like she just sat down and we just talked, and then we just kind of went back and forth until it the conversation ran out and it wasn't weird at all. And I felt good and she seemed to feel good, and I was like, All right, cool. But I was like, Hey, we're gonna come back to this. Like, this wasn't the end of it, we're gonna talk about this again. But I'm glad we had this conversation. She was like, Me too. I'm like, All right, yes, all right, it works so fun.

Chris Maduri: Wow.

Rod Richard: Far. Fingers crossed.

Chris Maduri: Yeah, that is fantastic. It's like I have to practice a face of not reacting to what they say and not judging it. But it is it can it can definitely be awkward. And the more awkward we make it, you know, the less likely they are to come back. So, you know, kudos to you for, you know,

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: proactively like seeking out that conversation and not, you know, trying to shy away from it. And 'cause they're tough topics and I mean we live in the information age. So they're gonna get the information one way or another. you know, if we wanna be able to shape it and you know, present it in a balanced way in both sides and you know, just to help them to understand like you are going to make your own choices in life. And really life is just a series of choices, right? Those choices are gonna present other ones and other ones and so on and so forth. So you know, the more thoughtful you are. about what those you know, what those choices mean and stuff, your your your options are just gonna be different. Right. If you choose to spend your time, you know, really cracking the books, then you're gonna have different options for colleges and and work and things like that. So yeah, that's sorry I'm rambling.

Rod Richard: No, no, no. Man, king 'cause I think obviously I'm I'm on the I'm there, right? And so hearing you say that is like okay, I'm I'm we're on we're on the same page. and I don't know what it's gonna look like for my youngest 'cause my oldest daughter, she is As much as she cares about dressing, she so far doesn't seem to care about boys. My like she's like all these boys, th her her their term for boys that are not cute is chopped. The boys are chopped or they're immature or the you know, the boys are like they

Chris Maduri: Mm-hmm.

Rod Richard: they get on my nerves. Like all the boys get on their nerves, right?

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: but my youngest daughter is like, I like him. like she she's eleven

Chris Maduri: Hmm.

Rod Richard: years old and she's like, I really like this boy and But and again, we have these conversations and it's not awkward, it doesn't feel weird. At the same time, I'm like, little crusty eleven year old man, don't like that kid. You know, I I I I went I went to I went to Field Day. I saw that kid, he sucks. Like, you know. But again, just

Chris Maduri: my gosh.

Rod Richard: just being able to have the conversation makes it okay. And I n I think She's the one I'm probably gonna have to think more about when it comes in terms of boys and relationships than my older daughter. However, who knows, right? Like who it could it can instantly flip. and I think just being able to have the uncomfortable conversation and knowing, like you said, not not like making the choice for them, but kind of helping them frame it, helping them understand the context around it, understanding that this choice leads to another choice is extremely important. Not only in you know, puberty and boys, but just in life in general, beyond their time with us, even as they're adults, right? The choice choices they make at 20 will reflect it when they're 30 or 40. and so that kind of teaching those lessons now is extremely important, especially when they're transitioning through, you know, being a kid to being an adolescent to you know being a young adult. I think our roles as fathers change and so the conversations we have with them. has to change. and and so what you're saying is is is right on.

Chris Maduri: Yeah, yeah. And trying to get night to like not judge and kind of let go of them. You know, understanding that you're going to make mistakes, you're gonna have regrets with the choices that you make. you know, take what you what serves, right? Get the lesson out of it and try to let the rest go. Because otherwise, you know, it's very easy to hold on to shame and

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: you know, to feel like, you know, I'm always messing up and you know, you j it just you can kind of create an identity out of those things. And you know, with friendships and stuff like that. It's these kids, man, it's a it's a tough time right now with social media. it's there are some positives, but you know, in t in terms of like finding your tribe, I think it could be a little bit easier because y you know, you have the ability to, whereas, you know, if you grew up in a small town and You know, let's say you're a boy and you don't like sports. You know, we're kind of in that here. It's like it's tough. Like the the arts aren't aren't overly encouraged and things like that. It's very easy to feel like an outsider. So being able to identify with, you know, other kids that are have similar interests and things like that is a beautiful thing. Outside of that, everything else is just like a shitstorm. So

Rod Richard: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

Chris Maduri: Hmm.

Rod Richard: it's it's the wild west offside of that for sure.

Chris Maduri: Yeah. Yeah. How do you handle that like the social media aspect and stuff with your kids?

Rod Richard: So my youngest doesn't have any access to it. I mean she has YouTube, but and that's kind of becoming more social media as they they kind of like allow shorts and things like that, but it's still kinda separate. my oldest is she she has Instagram account, but she has an Instagram teen account. and what we did is is we we had her do a presentation. She had asked about it a couple of times, so we kinda put it off. We didn't make a big deal about it, but we just kinda put it off like, hey, when you're ready, we'll we'll allow you to have it. And you know, she kept kind of bugging us, coming back to us more frequently and then finally she was like, I want it. I was like, all right, cool, put together a presentation on why it's important for you to have it.

Chris Maduri: Love it.

Rod Richard: And then when you're ready, you sit down, you sit us down. And if you if you're convincing enough, we'll allow it. In the background, I've been working with Meta for the last couple of years on their their Instagram teen accounts and you know kind of understanding what what restrictions are there are and kind of like how the whole account situation works. So I already knew that like I was based on what I knew about what they allow and and kind of the ratings and the the levels of protection and security and parent levels of ability. To kind of see what your kid is doing. I had already become comfortable with it. I just wasn't going to be like, yeah, you can have it. Like, by all means, the longer we can hold off, the better. And if you don't want to push for it, I'm not going to give it to you for no reason. but

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: then finally, she last year, right before her eighth grade year started, she was like, Okay, I think I'm ready. I'm gonna do a presentation, and I want you and mommy to sit down. And she did it, and it was convincing. The funny part about it is she for the first, I don't want to say six to eight months, she barely used because I can see her account and I can see how much time she uses because she only gets an hour. at that time she's only getting an hour a day. She was using like seven

Chris Maduri: Okay.

Rod Richard: minutes on average for like the first six months. Like she was not

Chris Maduri: Mm-hmm.

Rod Richard: on at all. She did all the presentations to get on it, and she barely even used it. But now she's she's using it a little bit more in the summer because she's not at school and she's trying to connect with her friends and all that kind of stuff. But she's still not going over. her limit of time. She's still off of it by nine o'clock is when it shuts off. She can't get access to it. she's posting pictures of, you know, stuff that we're doing. It's pretty pretty cool. I mean like as far as as the restrictions go, they kind of set it up where it's like Like movies, right? So there's already movies, T VMA, T V thirteen or whatever, PG thirteen. So depending on the child's age, they're kinda slotted into those ranks. And so she has a PG thirteen account. So if she can watch something PG thirteen, the stuff that she sees on Instagram is PG thirteen. So I'm not super concerned about it. I definitely wouldn't let her have a TikTok because that's literally the Wild West. and

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: it could be anything. X is or Twitter, whatever you want to call it, is the same way. she would never be caught dead with a face Facebook so I don't have to worry about that. She Facebook is for old people. Right. Yeah. She's

Chris Maduri: It's right next to our MySpace account.

Rod Richard: like yeah, she's like, Grandma Mimi's on Facebook. I never do Facebook. I'm like, yeah, you're right. You're right.

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: So so Instagram is the only one and like I said I feel pretty comfortable because I can monitor what she's doing. I can't see the actual messages, but I can see who she's messaging. I can see who she's friended or who's friending her. I can see basically the You know how like you can see on your for you page kind of what content is is kind of typically the stuff that you look at. I can see that for her, the topics that she's kind of constantly looking at and I I feel pretty comfortable about it. So it definitely was something I was concerned about though, because she has had friends who've had phones since like the third and fourth grade. And so, you know, it it it took us five years to allow her to get onto it. And so I was definitely concerned for a while about you know trying to make sure that she was gonna be safe.

Chris Maduri: Yeah. Yeah. It's a tough decis it's probably one of the biggest parenting decisions that we you know have to make these days. in our town they had this movement of wait till eight. And

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: initially I totally misinterpreted that. I'm like, How early are we giving kids phones? We gotta wait until they're eight? They actually meant eighth grade. So which

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: seems a little bit more appropriate. But you know, once they get it, it's it's it's a different job. You know, you have to monitor

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: it and stay on top of it. And for us, so my older two kids are from my first marriage and they're not with me full time. And then the younger two are. So which is it's just different in that sense

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: because you're not the pr you know, the primary and the older they get, you know, it it's like when they were younger I felt like You know, I was in the movie. I might have been a character in the movie at some time.

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: You then you're like, Well, maybe I'm the director. I'm like now now I feel like I'm in the audience, sometimes watching a horror movie, going, No, run. But

Rod Richard: Right. Yeah.

Chris Maduri: you know, it's and I have a a wonderful relationship, you know, with my ex-wife and her husband. And we were actually just talking before we you know started recording here and so grateful for that relationship, but You know how it is. It's like y you get together for the regular decisions, but the ins and outs and the day to day decisions you're just not, you know, really a part of. So, you know, when our kids are like, my daughter is like, I'm ten, I get a phone, right? You know, my my older daughter got a phone or she's like, My sister got a phone, like, mm, different house made that decision. Sorry. So you know, it's you you try to have balance and everything, but It's a lot of it's just having faith and trust in, you know, the people that are making the decisions and you know, we're like I said, we're very blessed for that. So I I did see that. Sure. No problem.

Rod Richard: right. So I I you know what is it's interesting as as as our kids continue to get older, I'm starting to think about, you know, my daughters both want to go to college, so we're planning for college and paying for college. But over this last few weeks while we were on vacation, 'cause we vacationed with my my wife's cousin and her family and we're around they're about four four and five years older than us, but we're kinda starting to talk about retirement. because we all kinda notice on this trip, they've got a sixteen year old son. Like I said, my daughter's about to be fourteen. These family trips are starting to kinda run the course, right? Like it pretty soon they're gonna wanna stay home or not go on these long trips with the family and it's gonna be just us. And that got us thinking about retirement when the kids are out of the house. It's gonna be just us. And I've got this idea, my wife and I of being digital nomads. When our when our youngest is gone to college, that first year she's gone, we're gonna take like six months and we're just gonna go travel the world, right? And like go see all the stuff that we haven't gotten to see. and then we'll come back and settle down somewhere, not in this house 'cause we don't need all this space anymore. and just thinking about what that looks like for us. so we've obviously started talking about it, but the conversation typically i other than like desirable locations, the conversation typically hinges on on money and how much money you need.

Chris Maduri: Sure.

Rod Richard: And I know from from kind of looking at at some of your stuff, the question is probably not so much of how much money you need, but like kind of what are you retiring to? Like w and and you know, instead of what are we I'm retiring with, what am I retiring to and what does that actually mean? Why do you think that's like a question that someone needs to answer first?

Chris Maduri: Well, I think it has a lot to do with the lifestyle that you want to have in retirement. And that's gonna mean from a financial standpoint, but also just from a life standpoint, right? Because so much of our life and so much of our purpose and our identity has come from our work life and you c you know what you're doing every day, right? The decisions that you make and there's a lot of stuff that's almost on autopilot. And so once you retire, filling that time, you know, you pull away someone's identity, right? If someone, let's say, was a fireman, right? If I'm Chris the fireman for the last thirty years and now I'm just Chris and I don't know who Chris is or what he likes to do or how he likes to spend time. it's really easy to feel very unfulfilled.

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: You know, you kind of have that that initial time where you're like, okay, I want to travel or, you know, I just wanna relax or whatever it is that you want to do. But after that, you know, you can't travel forever. Most of us don't have the means to do that. So,

Rod Richard: Right. Right.

Chris Maduri: or to distract ourselves with purchases or th you know, things like that. So it's really important that we figure out how we're gonna find fulfillment in retirement. So that, you know, this we've waited our entire lives to have the freedom to pursue our passions. But when we're on that treadmill of life, it's very easy to not be passionate about anything. You know, you

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: just don't have the time to do it. So just figuring out how that time's gonna be filled and how you're gonna find, you know, how you're gonna fund that is, you know, I think two of the the keys to having a successful retirement.

Rod Richard: Yeah, it's it's funny you say that because my my my grandfather retired from the military and shortly after his retirement he became a correctional officer and then retired from that and did that until he could retire again. my dad, two years ago, retired and then he it took him all of six months before he was like, you know what, I'm going back. And so he's back working again. He's work he works a adjusted schedule. He doesn't work like he used to work. But he went back 'cause him and my uncle, they they run group homes in the Bay Area. So they have now they only

Chris Maduri: Wow.

Rod Richard: have two, but at one point they had as many as five. And so my dad was like, All right, I did I did thirty years there, I'm done, I'm just gonna retire and me and your mom are just gonna just do whatever. And he he fixed the fence, he fixed some stuff around the house, he did some gardening and before I knew it he was like, I'm going to work today and I was like, Huh? What are you talking about? And so he's been working like three days three days a week when kinda he feels like it. but he's working, right? Because that that's who he is. That's all that's who I've always known. Like my dad has always worked and that's one of the things that I've learned from him is is how to h work and work hard. And I

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: I know that that becomes your identity. like a lot of times when people ask you about yourself, the first thing you say is what you do. Right and like you mentioned the firefighter. I I'm pretty sure every firefighter is gonna mention that they're a firefighter first. obviously

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: I may say husband or father or something like that, but it's name and occupation. it's typically how we identify ourselves and looking forward to retirement. That is one of the things I'm concerned about 'cause I don't like gardening. I'm not gonna be out in the yard

Chris Maduri: Mm-hmm.

Rod Richard: gardening. I'm not gonna pick up some random hobby like boating or You s one of those things, you know. I'm not gonna be making sourdough, which seems to be a big thing now. I just I don't know what

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: it is that I'm gonna do, but I can imagine that I'm gonna have to have some kind of purpose or calling at that point. I do like what I what I'm doing now with coaching and working with men and fathers and I can see that being something I continue to do because I can do it virtually. but I don't I don't wanna have the typical I have to do this thing, right, when I retire. And I think

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: that's what I'm looking forward to is like the quote unquote freedom of retirement. But a lot of a lot of that is is not real for most of us, right? Like the freedom that we think we're getting sometimes is not what we expect it. Have you seen that to kind of be the case?

Chris Maduri: yeah, yeah. And I think your what your dad's kind of done is very typical and also really healthy for a lot of people, from a financial standpoint, from a mental standpoint. whether it's reshaping it to work on your own terms and you know, to have the ability to either say no or to create your own schedule and just have the flexibility to find balance in life is an amazing step. And for some people, that is their dream retirement, where they go, all right, well, maybe I'm mentoring someone, or maybe I'm consulting, or whatever it is, or they open up a different kind of business that doesn't have to be about income so much or I shouldn't say income. it it's not you're measuring success in a different way, right?

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: And it's filling you up and you're excited to do whatever it is that you're doing. That's really what you want. And it doesn't mean that you're gonna pick up an instrument or bear with me one second, I'm gonna cough if that's okay. So

Rod Richard: Go for it.

Chris Maduri: thank you. It really is just more about identifying what it is to live life on your own terms and just finding meaning and purpose for that next act. So yeah, long story long, you are seeing that quite a bit where people they they're more comfortable having income, you know, especially because f fewer people have pensions. So

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: there's a tremendous fear about running out of money. And you know, you kind of have grown this nest egg, but you start spending that down and that's the shift, I think that mental shift, in retirement. You go from accumulation to what they call decumulation and that's both of of assets, of things, of you know, life experiences and now you're like, Okay, well, I'm not accumulating anymore. And

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: You know, the end is kind of, you know, coming near. So it's like, am I fulfilled? Am I yeah, have I done everything that I wanted to do? And those early years of retirement are are important. You know, those are like the go go years where you still have the you know, the wherewithal to travel and to do a lot of those things and put those pieces in place 'cause, you know, when you're eighty five, ninety years old, no one's like, let me go on a river cruise to the Nile

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: Like that's not that ship is, you know, literally sailed, I think, for most people.

Rod Richard: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, w it's funny, man. We we We went swimming, in the ocean and there was like a cave and they they kinda took us inside the cave and, you know, climbed up on the rocks and all this stuff and and my wife was like, There's no way I would have done that i i if I was sixty. You know, like 'cause then a lot of people wait 'til they retire to go do these things, right? And then that looks very different when you're older. Right? Like some of the things that you wanna do when you're young, you gotta do when you're young. So I'm I'm thinking about retirement as not like a Like I'm shutting a door. I kind of want to think of it more like for me, this is how I'm thinking, is like like a faucet, right? I'm just kind of gradually turning it down and kind of slowing down the stream of of work that I'm doing until until it's finally off, right? I don't want it to be like, you know, Friday is my last day, and then all of a sudden I'm never working again. and now I'm trying to adjust or scramble to try to figure out what that looks like. I kind of want to start to build the retirement life as I'm getting close. To it. Do you think that's a good idea, or should I just go cold turkey on it? Just rip the band-aid off or what?

Chris Maduri: Yeah. no, no, that is brilliant. Uh-uh. No. I I think the the more you can try it on, the better you're gonna feel about it, right? Like even just taking some time and kind of winding it down a little bit and little by little going, Ooh, you know, I like this. If if you're going from five days a week, some people seven days a week, you know, cutting it down a little bit. This way you can you know, just find that balance. You can do the things that you wanna do. And you're still working. So you're still accumulating or at least not spending down those assets. So, to be able to enjoy life, like you don't need to be retired to do that. You know, I think we ha we have this concept in our head that like I work and then one day I don't work and then I stop. And I think that's unhealthy for a lot of different reasons. And Just to be able to you know, instead of a light switch if it's you know, a water faucet or an oven, you know, you just dial it down a little bit and just kinda open things up for for more time. You know, you guys you seem you look like you're really young, so I'm not sure how how old are you? Forty three, yeah.

Rod Richard: Forty three. Yeah.

Chris Maduri: Yeah. And you know, that's that's ideal, right? Like your your kids ca you get to experience kids and be a part of their life. It's not just, you know, watching from afar. And the idea that you're taking time with your wife to like, yeah, when they go to college, this is time that we're still young and healthy and have the ability to like do all of these things and to enjoy each other. Right.

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: I mean, let's face it, like I know everyone says like you put your spouse first, but for most of us it's like our children and our jobs. are one and two and then there's sometimes steeper drop off than others between

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: two and three. you know and it's both of one and two take up a lot of time and they demand a lot of time and financially we all have needs and you know trying to provide for the kids and everything and being young enough where you can still really enjoy your spouse and really reconnect and find those pockets of time. is so important, you know,

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: because once the kids are out of the house and retirement comes in, you know, that's a big adjustment for a lot of people. Like, I really liked life when I saw you for a couple of hours a day. Now I'm seeing you a lot more. And you

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: just run out of shit to say to each other after a while. Sorry for cursing on the podcast.

Rod Richard: Yeah. No, no, no worries, no worries. It that makes me think about my parents because my mom had to retire before my dad. She had to medically retire. and so she wasn't working. And they my my entire life they've been like passing ships, right? Like my dad was working and she was home or she was working and he was it was like they were never really in the same place at the same time unless there was a reason for them to be. and then she retires so she's home or and I haven't Had this conversation explicitly with them about this in particular. This is what I'm observing. So she's home, so she's on him a little bit more about retiring so we can spend more time together or whatever. So then he retires and what I think both of them realize is that they weren't really spending that much time together. You know what mean? Like w she wants to go and travel. She's she's originally from Germany, so she wanted to go to Germany. My dad doesn't like to fly. in in my lifetime, he would take just the mandatory time off from work. Like he wouldn't you know what I mean? Like this t this year, this time isn't gonna roll over, so we

Chris Maduri: Mm.

Rod Richard: gotta take two week okay, I'm taking it. Otherwise he never takes a day off. He's gotta be deathly ill. I mean like they've gotta be he's gotta be in the hospital ill to not go to work. And now

Chris Maduri: Okay.

Rod Richard: that you know that period of time where they're both retired like she wanted to go places and he was like I don't wanna go like you can go no worries go you go and do you and your sisters or my sisters went with them with her one time and and like they she traveled and he stayed home. And I was like man I I I don't think they ever really had the conversation and realized like work was hiding how different they imagined retirement being, you know,

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: because they had just been so busy doing the thing, you know, working or raising us or being a part of raising my nieces and nephews and like being involved in all of the stuff. And then all of a sudden that stuff stopped and we didn't really need them like that anymore. And they just had each other and it was like, hey You're different. y and I th

Chris Maduri: Yeah, yeah.

Rod Richard: w what are we gonna do? Because I wanna go and you don't, and I wanna do this and you don't. And you know, now my dad went back to work and so it's not as much of an issue. But my mom is still like like your dad is just so stubborn. He don't ever want to do nothing. He don't want to go nowhere. He you know, and it's they're supposed to come down and visit us this year. and my dad has been talking about it. Like he initiated the conversation. We're gonna come down, we're gonna spend a couple of weeks there and then when he started back working again, he's like, Well, you know, I yeah, I'm gonna have to set it up so I like it I don't miss bo time at I'm like, Man, they don't need you there like they

Chris Maduri: Right Yeah.

Rod Richard: They did you a favor and let you come back and work with them and they don't need they'll be okay. Like you can take a couple weeks.

Chris Maduri: my gosh.

Rod Richard: you know, my mom is like she she's not she can't, right? She can't work, so she's like, I I wanna come down but you know your dad's gotta bring me 'cause she's she had to have her her leg amputated, so she's in a wheelchair. So she's like, If I'm

Chris Maduri: Wow.

Rod Richard: gonna come down, I need somebody to come with me. I can't do this on my own and so my

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: sisters my sisters will probably one of them anyway, 'cause my other just moved to Alabama. so one of my sisters might accompany her down if my dad can't get out of his own way.

Chris Maduri: Yeah. It's hard. I mean, those conversations are so important, you know, before

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: people retire, 'cause you see that all the time. It's like one person's vision for how that time's gonna be spent, how that money's gonna be spent, may be very different than the other person's. And you're seeing I don't know if you've heard the term like grey divorce, you're seeing that more than more and more where people are getting to that age and going, I just life is too short. This person is w we're just going in very different directions. We've been in very different places for so long, but work has masked that.

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: And, you know, I just you know, either go at it alone or, you know, whatever the case may be. But I think with a lot of convers you know, good conversations and finding compromise and communication, like sometimes that's the answer of like If the person doesn't want to compromise and come, at at a minimum, don't stop the other person from doing it, right? From living out their life and their dreams and everything. And to be supportive of it and, you know, to find a way, hey, you know, it's it's different 'cause my parents are the opposite. I mean, they have been joined at the hip for the entire life. And,

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: you know, it it's It's a beautiful thing and I see that and I'm, you know, very envious of that. 'Cause my wife and I are, you know, also very much like ships in the night. You know, she's got a very demanding job, doesn't have a ton of flexibility, in that and it was actually i i i the beauty of covet for us was that we were as a family all together and it's like,

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: you know what, I do like you. this is wonderful. I'm I'm looking forward

Rod Richard: Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Maduri: to, you know, twenty years from now spending time together. But Yeah, yeah, yeah. Put

Rod Richard: Yeah. Like, hey, let's do this again. Yeah.

Chris Maduri: that the you know and and but I think having that that conversation of you know what that lifestyle is gonna look like is you know, super duper important for folks to have. And that's, you know, you also bring up an the other tough part for a lot of families is health, right? And people's health changes at a different time. And generally speaking, like if one person gets sick, it's the other one that becomes the caretaker for them. And

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: having those conversations and really being honest about, you know, where we're at. If somebody's always had like some failing health issues and stuff like that. What it's gonna mean. Do we need to have care in place? You know, because

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: like I'm forty seven and if one of us had some issues that look like they were gonna present themselves later on, early onset dementia, things like that, it's like how what is that gonna look like? Because yeah, you might have a kid living in Alabama. This isn't like when they were growing up when we all, you know, lived in the same village. Generally speaking, the kids aren't close by. you know, and People are waiting longer to have kids. So a lot of people finding themselves in a position where they're taking care of a parent and a child at the same time. So, you know, while we're working, should we be committing funds to some sort of proactive long term care planning, things like that? all of these are just conversations about, you know, how finances should be best set up to support us later on in life.

Rod Richard: Yes that's that's awesome. I you know what, I I I kinda wanna ask you a little bit about that because you know, as we're planning for retirement or thinking about retirement at the next stages, I think we typically just think about like, Okay, how what how can we pay our bills? You know, these are the bills we have now. Maybe we downsize and move to a smaller home, but this is kind of what we need to survive, or have

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: a comfortable life. But there are other things that that come into play, like you mentioned the long term care and other things that maybe we we don't think about that could cripple us at that point, you know?

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: because right around like you said, right around the age that I'm retiring mm if if things work out. Like my parents are gonna be in this in a point where like they're probably gonna need to be taken care of. Or they're gonna be n need to be somewhere where they have some care. I'm not talking about like just throwing in a nursing home and forgetting about but they are gonna have probably nurses or doctors visits and all these things that are gonna need to be taken care of and I'm trying to go to Thailand like it was all like we're we've got different we've got different goals at that point. So it's it's definitely something that

Chris Maduri: Right.

Rod Richard: we gotta think about. that maybe I didn't even think about, and and starting to because I do have siblings but I don't know that they're thinking about it. And and so that we have to start kind of at least at least for my portion, I wanna start thinking about that. Is that something that you suggest that that others You know, guys that are starting to plan retire. Like I guess what are the things that we should be thinking about in terms of planning our retirement or like that like you mentioned, maybe that fourth quarter of of life.

Chris Maduri: Yeah, yeah, it's a great point. And you know, the when you think about from a financial standpoint and going back to that accumulation phase, it was kinda like all right, I hire a money manager, their job is to accumulate assets and to grow those assets. And when you start spending them down and you flip over to retirement, it becomes more about making sure that income is taken care of. And then also, what are the risks that I need to mitigate? Right. So if it's long-term care risk, right? Your greatest they're kind of hand in hand because the greatest risk of running out of money is generally going to be due to a proactive long-term care event. A protracted long term care event. where, you know, somebody's requiring hundred, two hundred thousand dollars a year for care. And those assets

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: are getting drawn down so much faster than the remaining assets are growing back. So there's things and you know financial tools that you can put in place, but it's important that you have that conversation with your financial advisor to say, what are we doing from a guarantee standpoint? Right? I gotta make sure that the money in the first five years of retirement is guaranteed and totally protected from any market loss. or interest rate sensitivity or anything like that. should we be committing a portion of this money to having, you know, some sort of long-term care protection put in place? And there's different products that you can, you know, look into and you know, always encourage people to, you know, please give me a call. We can go over those and talk about the options that are available to them. And that's kind of like how that money's being spent and all along that conversation. Because you usually see a difference between the man and the woman, right? The man's looking at the returns, the woman's going, I don't want to run out of money. And

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: how that money's gonna be spent is like, what if something happens to us? We'll figure it out or hope is not a great strategy for when these things happen. And

Rod Richard: Right.

Chris Maduri: usually by the time they're in front of you, you've lost any leverage, right? You go to an insurance company when you're 75 years old and say, Hey, like you know long-term care policy, you're not getting any leverage on that, right?

Rod Richard: Yeah.

Chris Maduri: So if you can within like the last five, ten years of your work life, maybe make some commitments to that and say, all right, maybe instead of just you know funding the 401k, maybe we fund this plan over here so that we get leverage, you know, two times, three times what we put in for long-term care that's tax free. And then if we never use it, Hey, it becomes a l you know a tax-free benefit for our kids. Like that's a good use of money. And just having those conversations is you know gonna be critical because so much of it sequence of return risk, right? So basically it's not if you look at 20 years of returns, you can average the same return throughout that time. But if you have a negative shock in the first five years of your retirement. The chances of running out of money are 40% higher than if those negative lapses came much later. You have the same average return, but you, you know, you had a million dollars, now you only have six hundred thousand dollars and you're spending that down, so it can't grow back. So, you know, just

Rod Richard: Hmm.

Chris Maduri: making sure that where those assets are located and protected is super critical. you know, as you approach retirement. And so, you know, I call it the you know, retirement red zone or risk zone. The first five the five years before you retire and the first five years of retire have to be really well planned for and thought out. After that, you have a lot more flexibility and a lot more bandwidth, you know, to adjust for it. So

Rod Richard: Okay. So I I think a lot of times we talk about retirement and we we we talk about it as like a f maybe like a feeling and less of a fact. Like, I've been I've been working this job for twenty five years, it's time for me to retire, right? Like I feel like I've been working so long, I don't wanna work anymore, next year I'm retiring. What is it that we should probably know before we actually retire? You know, like what are the things that we n obviously we have to have some money put aside, but like maybe what is the the the question that we need to have answered before we retire?

Chris Maduri: e from a financial standpoint or from you know more of a emotional yeah. Yeah.

Rod Richard: G give it to us all. 'Cause I 'cause I know you have I know you have the the emotional and psychological stuff as well because, you know, you you've been doing it for a long time so you understand it deeper than just the money.

Chris Maduri: Yeah, yeah. from a r from a retirement standpoint, making sure that you have enough income to pay your bills, right? Like once that's locked in and guaranteed, you can weather the storms because you're not tapping into it. So make sure that you have enough guaranteed income and kind of make sure that every person's different. So some people don't like that approach, but for most people that find comfort and peace of mind, making sure that you have enough income to pay your bills and you can live your life at least on a baseline level, you know, without going broke. on you know, the mental and emotional side, really just getting in touch with yourself, what your identity is, what your purpose is, and just kind of spend time with yourself. Like, what are your interests? What is going to make you, you know, pretending that, you know, today's day one, I close my eyes. How am I spending that time? What is going to give me fulfillment in the in life? And then, you know, from there just kind of kicking it around, staying open, you know, to different ideas and trying different things. you don't have to go from this rigid life of here I work, this is what my day look like, you know, is going to look like every day, but just being curious, you know, and exploring. Different things 'cause it oftentimes it's just saying yes to things that are of interest. Things that go, ooh, you know, inside, like, hmm, that could be interesting. And saying yes

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: to that is could take you to a place that you never imagined was going to provide so much fulfillment in that next act of life.

Rod Richard: Okay. All right. Cool. Cool. I think that that that answers the that answers it the For me, right? Like I don't other guys probably have a ton of questions and obviously I suggest everybody, if you're even thinking about it, if you have a family, if you have kids, you should be planning for your future. If you don't already have a financial advisor or somebody that's helping you plan that, you definitely need to do that. Chris is obviously in that field and a professional there, so we'll have his information available for you. but if if a guy's listening right now, and just like any of us, he's he's working hard, raising children, trying to save, and but retirement just feels far away, right? Like I I

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: feel like because I want to get to there and I like I just left this vacation and I want a vacation more, I feel like it's like right around the corner.

Chris Maduri: Yeah.

Rod Richard: But there's there's some time. I'm only forty three. I got some years ahead of me. I got some time that I've gotta put in and and and set some things up, but for guys that are feeling like, you know, it's just still so far away, what could they be doing today? And you actually kinda just answered this, but I'm I'm asking again. What could they be doing today, either financially a and personally, so that they enter that fourth quarter with their money, their marriage and their health and and really I think the underlying thing that we've talked about that you've kind of come back to a couple of times is their purpose and having all those three things or four things intact when retirement actually does show up.

Chris Maduri: Yeah, yeah. I think it's really just taking care of yourself, you know, the mental, the emotional, the health, you know, all of these things. We have a tendency to think that we need to do big things, right?

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: Like, when I make more money, I'll put more money away. You don't it doesn't necessarily have to be that way. Because when you have time, it changes things, right? You have the ability to say, All right, how much income do I need to live? And it's not about accumulating these assets. Right, there's different plans that you can put into place that are truly just income oriented and you can make flexible contributions little by little, keep chipping away, you know. same thing for health, you know, if you're not in a good healthy state and you're not taking care of yourself and working out and eating right, making small changes and just choices that lead to life, right? just puts you on a different path. So you don't have to turn your life upside down. It's just little by little making choices that are in line with the future you and who you want to be and just spending time and going, I'm not where I want to be right now. But who is that person and what choices does that person make to get there? And you can find that like just making slightly better choices every day accumulates. And a couple years later you're sitting there going, Whoa, this is a very different version of the person that I am. That that was it for me. Now I spent most of my twenties and thirties living a life that it led to death. And I don't I don't mean like imminent death, but you know, the choices that you're making are either good for you or they're bad for you, one way or another.

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: You know, and the accumulation of those choices was leading me to a negative place and I wasn't happy with myself. I wasn't happy with the way that I felt, I looked, how I communicated with other people. And it wasn't like I turned my life upside down. It was just like little by little, like, okay, you know, I I started to open my life up to God and allow God to kind of direct my life instead of me directing it.

Rod Richard: Mm-hmm.

Chris Maduri: And it led me to a beautiful place. So You know, if I can encourage anybody to you know, find time with God and, you know, find that life of faith, it's gonna lead you to a place that you never imagined you'd be able to get to.

Rod Richard: Yeah man, listen, we've we've talked about a lot of different things on on this episode and retirement and fatherhood and being a being a dad and having conversations with your kids. But fellas, if you made it this far to this point and you heard the answer to that question, that was it right there. Like I feel like that was that was what we all need to hear on on so many different levels. I think Chris hit the nail on the head and I don't know that I can add anything to that. great that was a great answer.

Chris Maduri: Thank you.

Rod Richard: Listen, Chris, I I appreciate I appreciate this conversation for a number of reasons. But but one because it reminds us as fathers that preparing for the future means thinking beyond just an account balance, right? It's it's about thinking about your purpose and what that looks like, thinking about your relationship and what that looks like, thinking about your fatherhood and what that looks like because your kids aren't gonna need you the same way anymore. And so hopefully you've built them up and built your relation up relationship up in a way that you know kind of lasts forever the way that you would enjoy it or the way that you want it to, right? I think you do have to plan, you know, plan for your money. That's important. But you need to plan for your time. You need to plan for your health. You need to plan for your marriage. You need to plan for your relationships, your identity, your relationship with God, as you just mentioned. I think is an important part of all of that. and the goal is to reach retirement with your finances intact and the ability to step away and pay your bills, but then also to have your emotions and your relationships and the way that you feel about yourself and your identity. intact and with some clarity as you step forward. I mentioned this just a minute ago, but but Chris if guys are wanting to reach out to you to maybe, you know, get get get a consultation or or to say thank you or to give you a virtual high five or whatever the case may be, what is what is the best way for them to do that?

Chris Maduri: Yeah, I mean you can go to my website, vibrant retirement dot com and all of my contact information, social media and stuff will be there. and please reach out. You know, I don't I don't charge for, you know, consultations and talk. it's really important to me that everybody gets the information that they need to make the choices that they, you know, are are gonna wanna make to have the most fulfilling life possible. So please don't be shy to reach out. You know, no pressure or anything like that. And, you know, love having conversations and just, you know, helping people to either just talk it through and, you know, hear a voice on the other end to just affirm and not judge, you know, please reach out. yeah, so that's the best way. Vibrant Retirement dot com. Give me a call, shoot me a message, whatever it is you overcomfortable with.

Rod Richard: All right, cool, cool, cool. I'll I'll make sure to also have that in the show notes. I know sometimes guys are listening to this while they're driving and maybe aren't writing down vibrant retirement dot com. or you know, they may need to come back to it later. So I'll make sure I have your information and the website and the social media links available to them there as well. Listen, Chris, I I appreciate I mentioned this pre pod that I you know I understand how important time is to all of us, but especially us as fathers. Because the time is the one thing we're not going to get back. Right. We can make more money. We can make new relationships. We can build new things. But we never get time back. So I appreciate you taking the time today to sit with us to have this conversation. To talk about fatherhood, to talk about finance, to talk about, you know, who we're becoming when we retire. And not just what we're doing when we retire. Thank you so much. I really, really appreciate it.

Chris Maduri: thank you for having me. This is a beautiful conversation. Thank you for the time.

Rod Richard: Awesome, awesome. Chris, look, I I'm not saying this for the pod. Thank you for what you're doing. I you're you're changing the lives of of men, setting some some setting them at ease as they get into retirement, you know. making that as smooth as possible because I know a lot of us have anxiety around it. I myself do. So thank you for joining us on the podcast, but also thank you for the work that you're doing. Totally appreciate it.

Chris Maduri: Thank you so much, Rod. Likewise, I appreciate it. All right.

Rod Richard: All right, brother. I'll talk to you soon.

Chris Maduri: Take care.